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From Daniel Shahaf <>
Subject Re: I will try to finish my current tasks before I go
Date Fri, 02 Sep 2011 11:05:22 GMT
Terry Ellison wrote on Fri, Sep 02, 2011 at 09:56:12 +0100:
> This is a response to some content in the replies to
> It was late when I wrote this, so maybe I should have phrased it
> better.  However one of my paragraphs generated a strong reaction
> and a bit of personal criticism, So I just want to explain what my
> intent was below, since the Apache way seems to be to let it all
> hang out in public.

I'd be fine with having this thread on a private list.

That said:  You have been libeling Infra on this list.  Don't do that.

>    * *Infrastructure processes and practices*.  Watching these at work,
>      they clearly work for the core team who do most of the work.  No
>      question about this.  But nothing is written down, with everything
>      just "commonly understood" by the team.  There are many ways of
>      organising and executing this type of infrastructure service, and
>      the team has chosen one which can work in small tightly knit
>      groups.  However it doesn't scale and it will be very foreign to
>      newcomers who are used to different working models.  For example
>      anyone working in an F500 company or major government organisation
>      is used to working within an ITIL or other QA framework.  So it
>      could take newbies months to learn their way into the Apache
>      model.  This can cause conflict and tensions if you have project
>      goals which involve weeks.  I am a newbie here.  I have weeks.  I
>      have a corporate background.  I am used to picking up a rule book,
>      reading it, understanding it, then following it.  Here, I seem to
>      cross invisible lines and get publicly flamed in response.  That's
>      why it doesn't work for me.

Learn the difference between getting feedback on your work, answers to
your questions, or post-commit reviews to your commits, and being

> This is probably my last public comment on the above.  I don't want
> to start a ping-pong responding to the personal criticisms in the
> previous thread.  They are public and on the record so others can
> form their own opinions.

That's pretty impossible because #asfinfra is not archived.

> Whatever happens, I will do my best to
> migrate the forums and wiki, to document these systems and to bring
> them under proper revision control to a standard acceptable to the
> infrastructure team.  But the sensible option for all currently
> seems to be for me to disengage from at that point.

As you wish.  You'd be welcomed back at #asfinfra whenever it's possible
to work with you without getting into discussions such as the present one.

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