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From "Dennis E. Hamilton" <dennis.hamil...@acm.org>
Subject RE: What is needed for Support Forums to be fully integrated into the Apache OpenOffice.org project
Date Tue, 06 Sep 2011 19:09:19 GMT
Based on the actions I see proposed over there, I don't think they need to bring a proposal
over here.  It seems that, at least as of yesterday, the necessary visibility for oversight
was being deliberated on.

 - Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: drew [mailto:drew@baseanswers.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 09:14
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: What is needed for Support Forums to be fully integrated into the Apache OpenOffice.org
project

On Tue, 2011-09-06 at 11:57 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 11:41 AM, David McKay <dmckay@btconnect.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 06/09/2011 15:56, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> >>
> >> Christian,
> >>
> >> What I find awkward around all of these discussions is that there are
> >> already several Apache OOo PPMC members who were and are already
> >> administrators and moderators on the OpenOffice.org forums, and not one of
> >> them stood up here, on ooo-dev, and said so.
> >>
> >> It boggles my mind how much withholding is going on.
> >>
> >>  - Dennis
> >
> > Not strictly true. I've said several times that I was a moderator on the
> > forums. This is getting to too much like the emperor's new clothes.
> >
> > Does it have to be more complicated than this: agree the high-level points
> > and them work out the detail. As far as i can see the main points are as
> > follows.
> >
> > 1) The forums bring great value to the Ooo community and project alike. The
> > more help the end users get the better. The more bugs that are brought to
> > our attention and find their way into bugzilla the better. It is already one
> > well-founded and respected face of OOo to the outside world.
> >
> > 2) The forums need a new home.
> >
> > 3) For that home to be under the Apache umbrella, as a minimum, it requires
> > some tweaking of the forum management/administration, or at least, a
> > permanent visible record of the management/administration actions.
> >
> > 4) Collaboratively, we ought to be able to get this done.
> >
> 
> All nice statements.  But we had nice statements before.  It is time
> to back up nice statements with a true common understanding, including
> a written proposal from this autonomous forum volunteers on how they
> wish to operate within the AOOo project, a proposal that the entire
> PPMC can review and disucss and hopefully approve.


Yes that will come later today - (at least I'll try to get it that
quickly if I can)

//drew

> 
> This level of formality, having an actual proposal, will raising the
> level of discourse from from bitter arguments on the list to saying
> actually what you plan to do.  It also makes the understanding
> concrete and memorializes it so both the forum volunteers and the PPMC
> can refer to it in the future when memories fade.
> 
> Remember, we don't create a new mailing list in this project without
> someone actually submitting a proposal and having a discussion.  We
> should not be migrating years of content, bring on board 75 new
> project volunteers with a very different operating style, with many
> connections to the rest of the AOOo and Apache Infra, without having
> that same level of diligence.
> 
> In any area that has been rife with misunderstandings, this is not the
> place to rush.  We should tone down the discussions and hash out the
> details with greater civility.  But let's take our time and ensure
> that we're all on common ground when this is over.
> 
> 
> > Dave.
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Christian Grobmeier [mailto:grobmeier@gmail.com]
> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 02:58
> >> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: What is needed for Support Forums to be fully integrated into
> >> the Apache OpenOffice.org project
> >>
> >>> We are a group of users who believes in OOo.
> >>> We like to help other users through forums (some like ML, we prefer
> >>> forum,
> >>> that's life).
> >>
> >> This all and then tons of work you already have done (up to 18.000
> >> posts!!) should make you eligible as an ASF committer.
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >>
> >> [ ... ]
> >>
> >>
> >
> 



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