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From "Dennis E. Hamilton" <>
Subject [DISCUSS] NL Mailing Lists (was RE: [PROPOSAL] Set up of ooo-dev-ja at
Date Fri, 09 Sep 2011 16:19:29 GMT
I am changing the topic of this branch of the discussion.
I am worried about some problems with mailing lists and migration of  If the
problems are allowed, it should be on purpose.

I suggest discussing those problems before the situation is made worse.  I will move this
topic to the OOOUSER wiki on the weekend.


 1. The current list arrangement is technically superior to what is proposed for replacement.

 2. Shutting down the resources of a community and expecting that community to migrate itself
onto an alternative will deteriorate if not completely lose the participation of that community.

Preservation of the existing mailing lists and their services; the means for doing so.

Migration of the existing mailing list services and content onto Apache hosting along with hosting.

Restoration of moderation and support of the lists themselves.

Within the existing structure and subscriber community of each NL group: simplification, consolidation,
or retirement (with preservation) of existing lists that are redundant, inactive, or too specialized
to sustain.  

Adjustment of the operational support to satisfy ASF requirements for oversight and accountability.

Transfer of lists to different services and operation only when loss of functionality and
community disruption is minimized.

Automatic continuation of the established community and subscriptions on any migration onto
different list systems.

Involvement and engagement of the existing NL group community in each step of the way.  Minimize
avoidable disaffection.

 - Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: [] 
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 01:55
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Set up of ooo-dev-ja at


Dave Fisher schrieb:
> > if you mix everything like user questions and answers, 
> marketing, QA 
> > et cetra on only *one ML*, you will alienate the poor users.
> > 
> > But it seems to be the way it is.
> > so ... I wish you all the best.
> I understand your concerns about mixing marketing with users. 
> What are the other categories besides marketing that users 
> should be shielded from? Translation? We've been mentored to 
> only have additional lists for good reason and with careful 
> consideration of the community and our oversight 
> responsibilities to the ASF.

It is very, very simple.

The list is a list ONLY for german-speaking users. This
users a _not Community-members_ but only users and this users cannot write
questions in english.
The list is a support-list for users, not a list to
coordinate the activity of the project-members.

OK, we can replace by a german forum but the users just
like, and it would be better to have a German-language
forum AND a german USERS-list.



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