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From "Dennis E. Hamilton" <dennis.hamil...@acm.org>
Subject RE: Apache Way community moderation rationale
Date Fri, 02 Sep 2011 15:24:40 GMT
We are also not in control at this time, as far as I know.  The registry information still
has Oracle Corporation as the Registrant Organization.  

When the domain transfer at the registrar happens, we can worry about take-down notices and
other legal requests made to the registrant.  I assume that there is a link on every current-site
page for where takedown notices can be sent (it doesn't have to be to the registrant, it can
be to the hosting service, something we can be acting as, perhaps?) and that would likely
be something that needs to be fixed once the domain points to pages in PPMC custody.

I don't see this as a barrier to the migration approach that I am endorsing.  But it is a
good concrete situation to make a point of dealing with.  Thanks for pointing that out.  Is
the bugzilla a good place to start compiling these?
 
 - Dennis

PS: Amazing that we have graduated from language about property to now speaking of control.
 I am anxious for responsibility and accountability to have their turn.

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org] 
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 08:04
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Apache Way community moderation rationale

On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton
<dennis.hamilton@acm.org> wrote:
> Owning the domain name and owning the existing site are two different things.  Apache
does not "own" the content on the current live site that is not part of the Oracle CLA.
>

It is not about ownership.  It is about control.  If someone uploaded
illegal material, pirated software, etc., Apache would get the
take-down notices. We could not argue that we did not own the pirated
software.  The PPMC is responsible for the moderation of the forums,
directly or via delegation.  There is no hiding from this
responsibility merely because user content is under their own
copyright.  That would be silly.

-Rob

> I'm 100% behind Shane's view of how we could migrate in a gradual, transparent way that
engages the impacted community (not the one defined as those people who are here on the podling
already).
>
> My only concern now is that we do not take steps that make that migration an option,
however we conclude what the end game will look like.
>
>  - Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
> Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 07:48
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Apache Way community moderation rationale
>
> OpenOffice.org is an Apache domain.  It will have Apache branding,
> etc.  We can't pretend that site is at arm's length.
>
> -Rob
>
> On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton
> <dennis.hamilton@acm.org> wrote:
>> +1
>>
>> I completely support the high-level migration road-map you sketch for artifacts and
services currently in custody of the openoffice.org domain sites and not part of the Oracle
SGA.
>>
>> In the final paragraph, though, perhaps you meant to say
>>
>> " Given the past history and the fact that this
>> non-code content is not currently under an *apache.org* domain, it is
>> possible to technically migrate a lot of stuff without having finalized
>> the policy issues.  (Note: source code and items under apache.org
>> domains are different, and should discuss policy issues sooner rather
>> than later)."
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Shane Curcuru [mailto:asf@shanecurcuru.org]
>> Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 07:23
>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: Apache Way community moderation rationale
>>
>> [ ... ]
>>
>> ----
>> NOTE: OOo is a huge project with a very diverse set of well-known
>> services, and, like, a LOT of users.  To graduate to a top level project
>> will require significant changes to how some of these services are
>> provided in the future under any Apache marks or domain names.
>>
>> Given the scale and breadth of services, and the changes in community, I
>> think it's appropriate to plan on plenty of time to make the complete
>> migrations of these services.  Likewise, I believe it may be permissible
>> to take over hosting some services in the technical sense under the
>> openoffice.org domain - in the short term - that we might not normally
>> consider as managed fully by the Apache Way yet.
>>
>> One way to think about services migration - to separate out policy
>> dependencies from technical ones - is:
>>
>> - Ensure several PPMC members have root / admin / whatever level of
>> access is required to give them oversight, so they can review behavior
>> on the service. (first!)
>>
>> - Technically port the service to apache hardware (but not under an
>> apache.org domain yet)
>>
>> - Apply branding updates to the service
>>
>> - Decide final policy issues for moderation, etc. for the service
>>
>> Does that make sense?  Given the past history and the fact that this
>> non-code content is not currently under an openoffice.org domain, it is
>> possible to technically migrate a lot of stuff without having finalized
>> the policy issues.  (Note: source code and items under apache.org
>> domains are different, and should discuss policy issues sooner rather
>> than later)
>>
>> - Shane
>>
>>
>
>


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