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From Rob Weir <>
Subject Re: [www] Color me Copyright-confused
Date Tue, 09 Aug 2011 17:47:07 GMT
On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
<> wrote:
> Dave,
> I've been pondering this some more.  (I saw Drew's post on the Apache-license wording
being there since at least April.)
> I don't know about injection of the Apache license notice in <head> comments, but
I am definitely concerned that we are adding a "Copyright 2011 Apache Software Foundation"
at the bottom of the pages that are from a third party.  This is the closest guidance I could
find: <>, and it mentions that a terms-of-use
for web sites is forthcoming.  We may need to ask about that.  I am pretty sure we are not
planning to include these web pages into a release itself.

The Apache home page says in its footer:  "Copyright © 2011 The Apache
Software Foundation, Licensed under the Apache License, Version 2.0."

IANAL, but that in itself only makes sense to me for pages where
either 1) the work was authored by Apache employees (a "work for
hire") or 2) Content to which Apache was assigned the copyright.

But those should be quite rare conditions.  In the typical case, we
each individually (or our employers) own the copyright, and via the
iCLA and the Apache 2.0 license we give Apache (and each other and our
users) a license to use, modify and redistribute the content.  But I
don't see where we've assigned Apache the copyright.

Maybe Apache is claiming copyright on derived work that consists of
the the entire page, so the whole mashup, not just the content, but
the visual design, color schema layout, the entire visual combination?

> I think we need to talk to legal-/license-discuss before we put more ink on our rubber

When we have the headers and footers and privacy and terms of use done
to our satisfaction (consensus of the PPMC) then we will obviously
need to run this by branding and legal.

> Please add this part to the work items you've listed already.
>  - Dennis
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Fisher []
> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 22:23
> To:
> Subject: Re: [www] Color me Copyright-confused
> Hi Dennis,
>> I was nosing around in the web pages at
to understand exactly what is going on with addition of "Copyright 2011 The Apache Software
Foundation" as a footer and the inclusion of the
>> <!-- Licensed to the Apache Software Foundation (ASF) under one or more
>>    contributor license agreements.  See the NOTICE file distributed with
>>    this work for additional information regarding copyright ownership.
>>    [ ... ]
>>    -->
>> as HTML comments in the <head> element of pages, etc.
> We are now able to wrap html with the Apache CMS. See recent commits to the templates
and lib/ and files. Next step is to apply the framework that I suggested.
>> 1. I am not clear what principle is being applied here and what the conditions of
its application might be.  (I'm not sure where there is {intended to be} a NOTICE file, either.)
 [The project notes for this don't mention this particular kind of change.]
> We are doing preliminary conversions. We are yet to consistently apply licensing, etc.
> I am not clear on what the best approach is to converting the various javascript and
css files used on the OOo Kenai to the Apache CMS. Nevertheless progress has been made.
> If we need a NOTICE we can add it.
>> 2. I also see that this page, which is in that www sandbox too, has those modifications:
>> <>.  But the
content appears to be the same as this: <>, so somehow
the Apache copyright notice doesn't seem apt.
> Yes, this is content that ought to be replaced by the work that Drew has started on one
thread, and I have mentioned on another  It is irrelevant if this is converted to mdtext
or kept as html , either will work. We can easily adapt the process to exclude in the sidenav.html
for certain mdtext files. We would add a header variable to the mdtext and then check for
>> 3. MORE EXCITING is that the page itself is identified as having been
revised on 2011-07-29 and it has this fascinating statement (also found on our www-sandbox
>> "[4.]b. Source Code Submissions. You agree that any source code You contribute to
a Project will be submitted under, and subject to, the license posted for that Project. If
no license is posted, You agree that Your Submission will be governed by the Apache License,
Version 2.0, which terms can be found at You
acknowledge that You are responsible for including all applicable copyright notices and licenses
with Your Submissions, and that You assume the risks of failing to do so, including the potential
loss of Your rights to Your Submissions."
> You will need to examine the kenai web repos to see who that was, I suspect someone on
the ooo-dev list did it, but it is in our svn now! We can start making the new
> is the place to create the all inclusive
terms of use, privacy policy, and the rest to be linked to from all of the future footers.
>> Does anyone know what this said before, when it was changed, and who changed it?
 Or has it been this way pretty much all along?
> Check the Kenai svn (ooo/trunk/tools/dev/, or Kay, or someone else?
> Regards,
> Dave
>> -- Dennis

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