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From Rob Weir <>
Subject End-User versus Developer Software
Date Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:15:22 GMT
Moving to its own thread.

On Sun, Aug 21, 2011 at 1:09 PM, RGB ES <> wrote:
> Hello to all,
> I'm monitoring the list since a while but never wrote before so
> please, forgive me for entering the discussion on this conflictive
> point ;) (1)

Thanks for joining the discussion.

> I certainly do not have the experience of you on software development,
> but I think that there is a point you are missing here: even if
> software development/managing/testing/whatever is almost the same game
> on every software project, software *usage* could be quite different
> depending on the product. People who use a web server or a svn tool
> have a *high* technical profile while people using a word processor or
> a presentation tool do not.

This is true, the usage is different.  But the skills used to create
software for end users are not different than the skills used for
creating developer-oriented software.   Certainly not different enough
to suggest that the Apache model of how a project works should be
considered inapplicable.

I think an important difference with OOo is the size.  With a smaller
project the developers could write all of the documentation. This
would be true for smaller end-user-oriented projects as well as
smaller developer-oriented projects. But for a larger project we will
specialize more.  There will be people who write documentation but do
not write code.  But the reason why we need more volunteers to write
doc and to support the product is because of scale.  It has nothing to
do with whether the application is for end users or developers.

> I know of people writing complex documents and with the ability to
> perfectly explain you how to properly use the program that enters in
> panic just because an unlucky keyboard combination switched their
> keyboard layout... We need to be very carefully about what we are
> asking them to do in order to remain "connected".


> I also think that the problem with existing mailing list is more
> profound than the "to aliases or not to aliases": we cannot ask all
> the contributors on all OOo related mailing lists to come here if not
> for other reason because of the language. For instance, very valuable
> persons on both, the Spanish and Italian forums will never be able to
> survive to 60+ *full English* mails a day.

There are language-specific lists for other Apache projects.  We can
do that as well.  Maybe not 160 different language lists.  But we can
create a handful of them, as needed.   We do that already, for
example, with the support forums.  So, ooo-users-es, would be fine.

The thing we need to think about is how we coordinate in project work.
 Obviously if there was an ooo-dev-es list and an ooo-dev-pt-br list
and an ooo-dev-de list, as well as the existing ooo-dev list, then
committers would have difficulty reviewing code, etc.   So for some
project areas we'll need to agree on a single language, and that will
probably be English.  I assume this means a single ooo-dev list, a
single ooo-private list, and a single ooo-security list.

Where do we need language-specific lists, beyond the support forum?
In previous discussions I've heard the locale-specific translation
lists would be needed.

I also heard mentioned "local marketing lists', but I'm not sure how
such activities map to the way Apache projects are run.  Events,
publicity, press, etc., are coordinated at the Apache level.  So I'm
not sure how much we can devolve such activities to sub-project lists.


> Cheers
> Ricardo
> (1) Presenting myself: I'm one of the admins of the Spanish Community
> forums, but also participate as volunteer on the English and Italian
> forums. You'll see me as RGB on the English forum and as RGB-<two
> character locale indicator> on the other two ;)

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