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From Rob Weir <>
Subject Re: [Was: Re: [Discussion]]
Date Tue, 23 Aug 2011 21:33:54 GMT
On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 5:09 PM, Dave Fisher <> wrote:
> On Aug 23, 2011, at 1:49 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Marcus (OOo) <> wrote:
>>> I can understand Rob's arguement that we have to split ourself to give
>>> support for mailing list(s) and forum in parallel. However, I believe that
>>> it would be an advantage when the normal, average user has a choice where to
>>> go to get an answer.
>> So let's be clear on what we're proposing.  In order to give the users
>> more flexibility, so they don't need to choose between a list or a
>> forum, so they can just continue to do exactly what they do today,
>> with no change, we will create, moderate and maintain 10 new mailings
>> lists, as well as the associated archives:
>> ooo-users-en.i.a.o
>> ooo-users-es.i.a.o
>> ooo-users-hu.i.a.o
>> ooo-users-it.i.a.o
>> ooo-users-ja.i.a.o
>> ooo-users-nl.i.a.o
>> ooo-users-pl.i.a.o
>> ooo-users-vi.i.a.o
>> ooo-users-zh.i.a.o
>> Is that that idea?  If so could we get names for 30 moderators,
>> please, 3 per forum?  .
> It is the idea. Except that each language is added as requested.

I'm proposing/requesting them all.   I haven't heard anyone from the
en user list pop over here and ask for a list, so none of are being
created based on any real analysis of user need.  I've seen zero
analysis of traffic for user lists versus forum.  I've only heard
arguments that some users like mailing lists, some like forums.  So
I'm propiosing to just create all of them now.  It is senseless to
discuss this further if we're not bring any facts, just opinions.  So
JFDI.  Starting with the 10 user lists.  Then we can move on to create
the other 600 project related lists.  Then maybe we can get on to
incidental matters, like writing code.

> How many PPMC moderators? - I think a minimum of one and they are responsible to the
rest of the PPMC for recruiting greater coverage and nominating those with proven merit on
the list for committership. That's my recollection of prior discussion.
> On Aug 23, 2011, at 7:55 AM, Kazunari Hirano wrote:
>> Hi Marcus and all,
>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 11:05 PM, Marcus (OOo) <> wrote:
>>> At the end it seems the best solution is still to go 2 ways: ML and forum.
>> +1
>> The forum will support 10 languages such as EN(English), ES(Spanish),
>> FR(French), HU(Hungarian), IT(Italian), JA(Japanese), NL(Dutch),
>> PL(Polish), VI(Vietnamese) and ZH(Chinese).
>> The ML should support these languages if those language communities want.
>> If we decide that subscribers should be invited
>> to, and
>> subscribers should be invited to,
>> then Japanese community would like to invite
>> subscribers to, and to invite
>> subscribers to
> These are in a different form from Rob's.
> Regards,
> Dave
>> -Rob
>>> Marcus
>>> Am 08/23/2011 09:50 PM, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton:
>>>> +1
>>>> There is no one-size fits all here.  We should have the list and the
>>>> forum. They are not redundant.  Some people will use both.
>>>>  - Dennis
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Marcus (OOo) []
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 07:05
>>>> To:
>>>> Subject: Re: [Was: Re: [Discussion]
>>>> Am 08/23/2011 03:29 PM, schrieb Eike Rathke:
>>>>> Hi Marcus,
>>>>> On Tuesday, 2011-08-23 11:11:35 +0200, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
>>>>>> And very often they write to the list but aren't subscribed. So they
>>>>>> don't get the answer unless someone is CC'ing them.
>>>>> That actually is a failure of how the list is setup when it has Reply-To
>>>>> pointing to the mailing list address (AKA Reply-To mangling). Without
>>>>> Reply-To a Reply-All goes to the sender and the mailing list.
>>>> Maybe, but they are still not subscribed. So the moderator has to let
>>>> the posts through; again and again until the user is subscribed.
>>>>>> In a forum all in one place. You can search, write and can get
>>>>>> answers. It's up to us if a subscription is needed. It would work
>>>>>> without.
>>>>>> Furthermore, I don't think that mailing lists are common for the
>>>>>> average user. But forums are.
>>>>> Mailing lists are much more accepted by those who actually help because
>>>>> handling is much easier than any web forum. You can setup your own
>>>>> scoring, flags, delete unimportant stuff in your personal archive and
>>>>> on. To get the best of both worlds best would be a forum gated to
>>>>> a mailing list and vice versa. Searching the mailing list would also
>>>>> possible at, or gmane..
>>>> Not before they got to know how this is working. In a forum it is
>>>> obvious. All is in one place.
>>>>>>> What if we just had support forums, but no users list?  Would
we miss
>>>>>>> anything?  Would users?  Note that phpBB forums allow a person
>>>>>>> subscribe to a forum or a topic, so those who want to receive
>>>>>>> can.  But they would need to go back to the forum website to
>>>>> And that just sucks.
>>>>>> I don't think that we or the users would miss anything because there
>>>>>> is no chance to miss something as the communitation method is not
>>>>>> existing.
>>>>> Well, I try to avoid forums whenever possible.
>>>> And there are users that try to avoid mailing lists. ;-)
>>>> At the end it seems the best solution is still to go 2 ways: ML and forum.
>>>> Marcus

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