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From Terry Ellison <Te...@ellisons.org.uk>
Subject Re: Migrating the web forums at user.services.openoffice.org to Apache servers
Date Fri, 05 Aug 2011 12:47:56 GMT
Eric,

A quick overall response.  You have accounts on the EN and FR forums.  
Why not raise this as a general issue on the EN forums?  I am sure that 
the guys/gals would be willing to support this broadening if it's clear 
that we can find volunteers who have the knowledge and are willing put 
the time in to answer Qs on these forks.

However, you are also raising a wider point that if the move to Apache 
is going to reflect a policy change reaching out rather than distancing 
from the wider OOo family and forks, then that is a whole topic in its 
own right and far wider than just forum support.

In fact as a general asset, our (OOo Forums) community probably brings a 
lot of pragmatic knowledge on how to set up and to run community 
forums.  We should be willing to share that knowledge.

On the admin side, we've set up 9 forums in a very scalable way and done 
a lot to make them zero admin.  Adding another for another Apache 
project if wanted is pretty trivial.  There are also probably a dozen 
people with in-depth moderation experience who might be willing to 
provide consultancy here.

Regards Terry
> Hi Terry,
>
> Le 5 août 11 à 12:08, Terry Ellison a écrit :
>
>> On 05/08/11 08:10, eric b wrote:
>>>
>>> Le 5 août 11 à 03:12, Pedro Giffuni a écrit :
>>>
>>>> Yes, it will continue to be inclusive for all OpenOffice derivatives.
>>>
>>>
>>> So I'm still wondering why OOo4Kids and OOoLight are yet not listed ...
>>>
>>>
>> Eric,
>> The short answer is no once has asked or the demand isn't there -- 
>> yet.  The long answer is slightly more complex:
>>
>
>
> I tend to disagree with your short answer.
>
>
>
>> Historically and (possibly with some tweaks) going forward, the 
>> people who make the policy decision on the forums are the people who 
>> contribute to them. In a 100% community run effort, IFAIK, this is 
>> the only formula that will work.
>>
>
> [...cut...]
>
>
>>
>> On the EN forum we run two closed sub-forums: one "EN - Forum Issues 
>> <http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewforum.php?f=69&sid=da1779e4dd6562bf9cbbc0efd49c1292>"

>> for discussing policy issues, and one "Site - Forum Administration 
>> <http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewforum.php?f=84&sid=da1779e4dd6562bf9cbbc0efd49c1292>"

>> for wider admin issues.  We do this in English, but members opinions 
>> are weighted if they are representing an NL consensus (e.g. our 
>> committers Zoltán Reizinger and Kazunari Hirano represent the HU and 
>> JA communities).
>
>
> Reading what you wrote, I now understand better why OOo4Kids and 
> OOoLight have no visibility in some countries.
>
>
>
>> Sorry BTW if you try to access these, but they are closed so that we 
>> can be more frank amongst ourselves in discussion.  Each other NL 
>> forum has a closed Forum Issues forum to manage its business.
>> Policy issues are discussed here and it is the consensus here that 
>> sets policy.  So for example we had a long debate on whether to 
>> support LibreOffice when the Oracle view seemed to us to be hostile 
>> to this.  Our strong consensus was that in reality there is one OOo 
>> community, and so it made sense to do so.
>>
>
>
> When I see OOo Community, I really do not understand the selection
>
> EducOOo, has historicaly been created because of some people blocking 
> any initiative coming from the Education Project (the same people 
> migrated to TDF since). EducOOo tries to act as an OpenOffice.org lab 
> and provided several improvements, who have been reversed/integrated 
> into OpenOffice.org (like Impress annotation mode, Equation editor 
> improvement and some other like some Linux ARM optimization).
>
> Our main goal is to contribute back to OpenOffice.org. As example, 
> since several years, we trained a lot of students around 
> OpenOffice.org code, and our actions helped to make OpenOffice.org 
> enter in schools in France.
>
> And if you want to compare with other forks, there is (to my 
> knowledge) no code reversed by LibreOffice and NeoOffice to 
> OpenOffice.org. But that's apparently no problem : they appear in your 
> forums.
>
> So, there is something hurting me : OpenOffice.org forks who do not 
> reverse any code to OpenOffice.org ARE visible, and OOo4Kids and 
> OOoLight, aimed to reverse contributions are not ?
>
> I hope you understand better my point of view now ...
>
>
>> The issue about supporting any specific product, however, is that you 
>> need enough active volunteers with knowledge of the specific flavour 
>> to credibly offer support.
>
>
> Let's try a different approach: if the item exists on the forums, 
> there will be _de_facto_ a support ? (yet the chicken egg issue .. ).
>
> OOo4Kids (and OOoLight) behavior is(are) very close to OpenOffice.org, 
> and we mostly hide things (what does not avoid us to invent new 
> features). To avoid being a concurrent to OpenOffice.org, we removed 
> Basic, and Java.
>
> and there is no problem to maintain and answer questions. More:  every 
> added feature was the result of an user-designer-developer 
> interaction, and the logical of the processus is easy to retrieve. See 
> our wiki (http://wiki.ooo4kids.org) , and look at the number of times 
> the pages have been acceeed if you prefer.
>
> + you could as well look at the code documentation : some pages have 
> been read more than 28, 000 times (without any thank you, though :-/  
> ) and translated in several locales.
>
> Some random examples :
>
> French, but extremely informative : 
> http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/IdeasAndSuggestions/fr
>
> Toolbars and user level : 
> http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/ToolbarsAndUserLevel
> Password protected preferences : 
> http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/PasswordProtectedPreferences
> Impress new cursors : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/AddNewCursors
>
>
> As you can see, our role is far over the simple fork idea, and we can 
> explain a lot.
>
>
>
>> I don't think we've reached that threshold for OOo4Kids and OOoLight 
>> yet.
>
>
> Again, this is the typical chicken-egg issue : we are in the situation 
> where some people decide to hide our existence, and claim nobody knows 
> us afterwards. What I do not accept.
>
>
> Back to the topic, OOo4Kids is provided for MS Windows, Mac OS and 
> Linux, in 17 locales.  There is even an OpenBSD port (working well) 
> and OOo4Kids alone is close to 1 million of downloads (94% use 
> windows, and 45% download the en-US version) !!  To be honest, these 
> figures are pessimistic,  and the number of downloads is a lot more in 
> fact, but we limited them to be sure of what we say.
>
> We even provide a (non official) Debian repository, for both OOoLight 
> and OOo4Kids
>
> Please verify by yourself :  http://download.ooo4kids.org   and 
> http://download.ooolight.org
>
>
> Following this success, we decided to create educoo.be, educoo.it, 
> educoo.es, educoo.no and some other (I don't have all in mind, sorry)
>
> Note: we are searching some volunteers to manage educoo.us  and 
> educoo.de (looks cyber squatted).
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Eric Bachard
>


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