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From Terry Ellison <>
Subject Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + (was branding)
Date Wed, 03 Aug 2011 14:02:30 GMT
On 03/08/11 14:38, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:20 AM, Ian Lynch<>  wrote:
>> On 3 August 2011 14:14, Rob Weir<>  wrote:
>>> <snip
>>>>> Ah.  OK.  He was asking for speculation on why the traffic is less now
>>>>> than a year ago.  Impossible to say, since I can't find any data on
>>>>> what the traffic actually was a year ago.  One way to back speculation
>>>>> with facts would be to get a log of edits from last year, gather the
>>>>> editors who were most active then, and contact them with a set of
>>>>> survey questions.
>>>> Rob, I think that I covered this point to some degree in an earlier post
>>>> today :-)  //Terry
>>> Sorry, replacing Andre's speculation with your speculation is not the
>>> same as introducing facts.
>>> -Rob
>> I think there is a difference between informed hypothesis and speculation
>> :-)
Thanks, I have been monitoring the wiki from the system side since early 
2010, and the forums for over 5 years.  So I do have relevant 
/experience/ of usage patterns.  Unfortunately, I just don't have the 
time to do the quantitative analysis because of my other workload.
> And neither is the same as facts.  I'm concerned when I hear
> paternalistic statements of "our contributors will never post patches"
> or "They would never ever sign the iCLA", or "If we don't let them
> contribute anonymously with 1-character passwords and fake names under
> an eclectic license of their choice then they will kill themselves".
> Have we asked them?  Are we really certain that all 35,000 registered
> wiki users are incapable or unwilling to sign a piece of paper and
> mail it to Apache?  Have we had this conversation with them?  Have we
> even brought it up?   Have we explained the workings of Apache
> projects to them and how the meritocracy works?   Have we even sent
> all registered wiki users a note, telling them that we're moving to
> Apache and inviting them to join us?  Have we proposed the idea of the
> iCLA to them and explained the benefits to them, how it would ensure
> the license to their contributions was clear and ensures that their
> contributions could then be reused by others?
> I really expect more, much more, from our PPMC members, in terms of
> community outreach and community development.  These are important
> goals for the project.  This is not achieved by having 2 or 3 people
> claiming to speak for the opinions of thousands.  It is done by
> reaching out to those thousands and showing them the benefits of
> working at Apache, and inviting them to join us here.
Rob, a nice polemic but why is it relevant to a point about /usage 
patterns/ on the wiki.  I am already working 12+ hours a day on 
migration this /pro bono/, not salaried by some company to do my job.   
If you want hard data to inform the decision making process, then 
ranting at people working to their limit really doesn't help.  Perhaps 
you can get an account on the prod wiki and do the analysis yourself.  
Regards Terry

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