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From Shane Curcuru <>
Subject Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + (was branding)
Date Tue, 02 Aug 2011 15:37:53 GMT
A few comments and suggestions from a mentor.

On 8/1/2011 9:48 PM, Dave Fisher wrote:
> <snip>
> <sigh>
> There are so many points and counterpoints about new/old and
> easy/hard.
> I think we need guidance about the migration. We need to state what
> we want to do given the strong and understandable push to preserve
> the Wiki, forums, and user downloads of the legacy code.

Personally, I'd suggest that a few of the committers who can actually do 
the work here start taking chunks of it, making more concrete 
[PROPOSAL]s, and start working with infra@ and this list on how to do 
those specific tasks.  Break some of the bits off into manageable chunks 
and make progress on them.

A key point with meritocracies is that the people *doing* the work 
(effectively) get to decide.  It feels like a number of threads recently 
are either discussing various details without having more concrete 
proposals, or are being driven by non-committers who are discussing ways 
that the project *won't* work.

This community - in general, everyone on ooo-dev@, but more specifically 
the committers and PPMC - need to focus on specific ways that the 
project *will* work.

> WIth the goal of preserving the existing community knowledge base, we
> need to know that it is OK for us to consider doing the following
> with the domain site on Foundation hardware.
> (1) Make sure that we are addressing any concerns about hosting the
> user forums on an domain - hosted on an Apache Jail.

Simply hosting it mostly staticly: just figure out the IP issues of 
hosting (what seems to be a significant amount of) content that is not 
under the AL (Apache License).

The whole concept of this large amount of community-driven wiki content 
(i.e. from people not likely to sign iCLAs) really deserves it's own 
separate thread.  In particular, figuring out how the community will 
plan to manage new updates to the community wiki (i.e., either ensuring 
that we have iCLAs or equivalent on all new contributions, or not).

Note: has anyone investigated other Apache wikis and how they manage 
contributions from non-committers?  There are plenty that do that already.

> (2) Allow the MediaWiki to exist as much as possible under its
> current terms for existing content, and under Apache terms for new
> content - hosted on an Apache Jail.

A question for this list and for infra@ (in terms of what the Apache 
infrastructure team is able and willing to physically host).  The best 
approach is to figure out more concretely what the ooo podling wants, 
and then work with infra@ to get it.

> (3) Host the old Oracle and Sun releases on
> through the Apache Mirror system even though they are not AL 2.0.
> Are these good questions to ask the Board in our report? Or should we
> be looking for guidance on legal-discuss.

Heh, sorry, no, these are not questions to ask the board!  These are 
things for *this* project to figure out - first step 1) what you want to 
do, and then step 2) how you can do it.  Step 2) presumably requires 
talking with legal-discuss@ and infrastructure@ to get specific advice.

If there are significant IP risks with what you're publishing on Apache 
servers today, or if there are unresolvable conflicts within the PPMC, 
then include things like that as "issues for the board".

The board is here to provide the oversight to ensure the Foundation as a 
whole is running smoothly.  The board has appointed a number of specific 
officers or committees who can help with all of these questions - like 
VP, Legal, the Infrastructure team, Branding, and even just the 
Incubator PMC (and your mentors) that can provide guidance on who to ask 
for help on different issues.

> We would certainly be very sure that it would very difficult for
> misunderstanding that these are NOT Apache releases.
> Regards, Dave

Good questions though!

- Shane

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