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From eric b <er...@openoffice.org>
Subject Re: Migrating the web forums at user.services.openoffice.org to Apache servers
Date Fri, 05 Aug 2011 12:22:31 GMT
Hi Terry,

Le 5 août 11 à 12:08, Terry Ellison a écrit :

> On 05/08/11 08:10, eric b wrote:
>>
>> Le 5 août 11 à 03:12, Pedro Giffuni a écrit :
>>
>>> Yes, it will continue to be inclusive for all OpenOffice  
>>> derivatives.
>>
>>
>> So I'm still wondering why OOo4Kids and OOoLight are yet not  
>> listed ...
>>
>>
> Eric,
> The short answer is no once has asked or the demand isn't there --  
> yet.  The long answer is slightly more complex:
>


I tend to disagree with your short answer.



> Historically and (possibly with some tweaks) going forward, the  
> people who make the policy decision on the forums are the people  
> who contribute to them. In a 100% community run effort, IFAIK, this  
> is the only formula that will work.
>

[...cut...]


>
> On the EN forum we run two closed sub-forums: one "EN - Forum  
> Issues <http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewforum.php? 
> f=69&sid=da1779e4dd6562bf9cbbc0efd49c1292>" for discussing policy  
> issues, and one "Site - Forum Administration <http:// 
> user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewforum.php? 
> f=84&sid=da1779e4dd6562bf9cbbc0efd49c1292>" for wider admin  
> issues.  We do this in English, but members opinions are weighted  
> if they are representing an NL consensus (e.g. our committers  
> Zoltán Reizinger and Kazunari Hirano represent the HU and JA  
> communities).


Reading what you wrote, I now understand better why OOo4Kids and  
OOoLight have no visibility in some countries.



> Sorry BTW if you try to access these, but they are closed so that  
> we can be more frank amongst ourselves in discussion.  Each other  
> NL forum has a closed Forum Issues forum to manage its business.
> Policy issues are discussed here and it is the consensus here that  
> sets policy.  So for example we had a long debate on whether to  
> support LibreOffice when the Oracle view seemed to us to be hostile  
> to this.  Our strong consensus was that in reality there is one OOo  
> community, and so it made sense to do so.
>


When I see OOo Community, I really do not understand the selection

EducOOo, has historicaly been created because of some people blocking  
any initiative coming from the Education Project (the same people  
migrated to TDF since). EducOOo tries to act as an OpenOffice.org lab  
and provided several improvements, who have been reversed/integrated  
into OpenOffice.org (like Impress annotation mode, Equation editor  
improvement and some other like some Linux ARM optimization).

Our main goal is to contribute back to OpenOffice.org. As example,  
since several years, we trained a lot of students around  
OpenOffice.org code, and our actions helped to make OpenOffice.org  
enter in schools in France.

And if you want to compare with other forks, there is (to my  
knowledge) no code reversed by LibreOffice and NeoOffice to  
OpenOffice.org. But that's apparently no problem : they appear in  
your forums.

So, there is something hurting me : OpenOffice.org forks who do not  
reverse any code to OpenOffice.org ARE visible, and OOo4Kids and  
OOoLight, aimed to reverse contributions are not ?

I hope you understand better my point of view now ...


> The issue about supporting any specific product, however, is that  
> you need enough active volunteers with knowledge of the specific  
> flavour to credibly offer support.


Let's try a different approach: if the item exists on the forums,  
there will be _de_facto_ a support ? (yet the chicken egg issue .. ).

OOo4Kids (and OOoLight) behavior is(are) very close to  
OpenOffice.org, and we mostly hide things (what does not avoid us to  
invent new features). To avoid being a concurrent to OpenOffice.org,  
we removed Basic, and Java.

and there is no problem to maintain and answer questions. More:   
every added feature was the result of an user-designer-developer  
interaction, and the logical of the processus is easy to retrieve.  
See our wiki (http://wiki.ooo4kids.org) , and look at the number of  
times the pages have been acceeed if you prefer.

+ you could as well look at the code documentation : some pages have  
been read more than 28, 000 times (without any thank you,  
though :-/  ) and translated in several locales.

Some random examples :

French, but extremely informative : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/ 
index.php/IdeasAndSuggestions/fr

Toolbars and user level : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/ 
ToolbarsAndUserLevel
Password protected preferences : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/ 
PasswordProtectedPreferences
Impress new cursors : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/AddNewCursors


As you can see, our role is far over the simple fork idea, and we can  
explain a lot.



> I don't think we've reached that threshold for OOo4Kids and  
> OOoLight yet.


Again, this is the typical chicken-egg issue : we are in the  
situation where some people decide to hide our existence, and claim  
nobody knows us afterwards. What I do not accept.


Back to the topic, OOo4Kids is provided for MS Windows, Mac OS and  
Linux, in 17 locales.  There is even an OpenBSD port (working well)  
and OOo4Kids alone is close to 1 million of downloads (94% use  
windows, and 45% download the en-US version) !!  To be honest, these  
figures are pessimistic,  and the number of downloads is a lot more  
in fact, but we limited them to be sure of what we say.

We even provide a (non official) Debian repository, for both OOoLight  
and OOo4Kids

Please verify by yourself :  http://download.ooo4kids.org   and  
http://download.ooolight.org


Following this success, we decided to create educoo.be, educoo.it,  
educoo.es, educoo.no and some other (I don't have all in mind, sorry)

Note: we are searching some volunteers to manage educoo.us  and  
educoo.de (looks cyber squatted).




Regards,
Eric Bachard

-- 
qɔᴉɹə
Education Project:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project
Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page
L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org
Blog : http://eric.bachard.org/news






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