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From Joe Schaefer <>
Subject Re: An example of what's wrong up with the wiki
Date Sun, 07 Aug 2011 22:31:51 GMT
All: stop talking on this thread.  This juvenile conversation
needs to end, and we need to get back to making progress on
both the service migration and the source code repository.

Re service migration: the people who currently admin the existing
wiki would be welcome to continue in that role at the ASF.  Anyone
who has enough common sense to remove stupid crap on the wiki would
be welcome to help admin one at the ASF.  No it's not fun being called
out for taking obviously justified action, and that situation won't
change at the ASF other than the fact that your peers in infra will
likely support you.

Re source code repository: apparently noone on the face of the Earth
has the requisite skillset to migrate the history back to svn.  Fortunately
that's not a fatal situation as you can simply migrate the tip to svn
now and migrate everything back to git in a year or so once it's made
available to incubating projects (or graduate and it'll probably be
available by that time).

Let's end this thread and move on to the issues I've mentioned.  Rational
discussions about the ICLA policy and its impact on releasable artifacts
can be handled separately.

----- Original Message -----
> From: Rob Weir <>
> To:
> Cc: 
> Sent: Sunday, August 7, 2011 6:04 PM
> Subject: Re: An example of what's wrong up with the wiki
> On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Larry Gusaas <> 
> wrote:
>>  On 2011/08/07 11:16 AM  Rob Weir wrote:
>>>  I think we need to do far better than what was just done, when a
>>>  non-project member, one who just recently announced that they were
>>>  leaving the project, deleted a contribution from a committer, and then
>>>  banned the committer from the wiki.  That shows multiple levels of
>>>  problems, security and procedural.
>>  The wiki is not part of this project. Apache has no control over that wiki
>>  yet. It is still under Oracle.
> If you've been following the list discussions, in another thread, you
> should know that the wiki is already up, in a VM, on Apache hardware.
> Switching over to that as the live version will not be long.  It
> certainly is not too early to discuss how we want it to work at
> Apache. This should be done with eyes wide open, recognizing what
> workdc well with the current wiki, but also acknowledging what didn't
> work so well
>>  Your being a committer has nothing to do with the current wiki. You are 
> just
>>  being ingenious to reinforce your anti user community wiki bias.
> Like most things, this is a question of balance more than of
> absolutes. The balance for a community-led open source project under a
> permissive license that allows downstream consumers to customize and
> release their own commercial derivative applications will likely be
> different than the ideal balance for a corporate-led open source
> project under a copyleft license designed to discourage commercial
> derivatives.    It is important to acknowledge this difference, and
> then appreciate the what these differences mean for the project..  A
> key part of being friendly for commercial consumers is that we treat
> the license questions far more rigorously than the lax approach taken
> previously.  If this is seen as "anti-community" then we need to do a
> better job explaining the reasons for this.
>>  Larry
>>  --
>>  _________________________________
>>  Larry I. Gusaas
>>  Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada
>>  Website:
>>  "An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind
>>  theirs." - Edgard Varese

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