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From "Gavin McDonald" <ga...@16degrees.com.au>
Subject RE: Fundraising
Date Sun, 14 Aug 2011 01:01:49 GMT


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Simon Phipps [mailto:simon@webmink.com]
> Sent: Sunday, 14 August 2011 10:28 AM
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Fundraising
> 
> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 1:22 AM, Andy Brown <andy@the-martin-
> byrd.net>wrote:
> 
> > Simon Phipps wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 7:45 PM, Eike Rathke<ooo@erack.de>  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Team OOo paid bursaries for individuals that went to OOoCons and
> >>> Hackfest, paid hardware for buildbots and pootle servers, paid
> >>> students for the OOo internship. Do you think that Apache will cover
> >>> those expenses?
> >>>
> >>>
> >> It's worth noting that these grants were always made by Team OOo (and
> >> indeed by FrODev) at their sole discretion and without any ability to
> >> officially direct them from the OOo project itself. I find it hard to
> >> see how Apache would be able to unilaterally shut down an
> >> independent, complementary activity like this.
> >>
> >> As to Shane's point about referring to some other list; presumably,
> >> as in other instances of this, we'd need to have a proposal
> >> formulated before doing that, and hence the topic is still appropriate
> here.
> >>
> >> S.
> >>
> >>
> > Seems to me there are two options open.
> >
> > 1) The grants are made to Apache with no strings attached.
> >
> > 2) The businesses stop receiving donations for OpenOffice.org.
> >
> > For either someone that has worked with the organizations that is a
> > member here needs to contact them and see what they can/ are willing to
> do.
> 
> 
> I don't follow that reasoning. If (hypothetically) I want to pay for you
to go to
> Bermuda for a vacation, it's between you and me and no business of the
> Bermuda Tourist Commission. 

I haven't been to Bermuda, would 2 weeks be ok?

> So while I can see the hardware donations will
> have to end, 

Not really, you just can't say 'heres a server for AOOo' , You can say heres
a 
server for the ASF, I'm sure the AOOo project will benefit if the ASF have
another Buildbot or Jenkins server.

Talking of which:

1. Where are those donated Buildbot servers that have been talked about,
    and the donated Pootle server, were they found?

2. Did you know the ASF have some  build servers, including Buildbot,
Jenkins,
Continuum and others that the AOOo project can make user of.?

(See ci.apache.org/waterfall, builds.apache.org, vmbuild.apache.org)

> why is it anything to do with this project if (also
> hypothetically) Team OOo wants to pay for you to go to ApacheCon in
> Vancouver where you've got a paper on AOOo accepted,

If an ASF Committer has a paper accepted for Vancouver then they are a
speaker
and in all likelihood will be paid for to go under the speakers agreement.

If any ASF committer wants to go to an ASF ApacheCon or other ASF event and
can
not afford it then they can apply for Travel Assistance to see about getting
travel,
lodging and entrance paid for. (See www.apache.org/travel for more.)

> or wants to pay a
> student to work on AOOo code for the summer?

Have the AOOo project apply as part of GSoC and have google pay them for
their work
for the summer. But you are right of course, Companies do pay people to work
on ASF
projects, or donate employee time, or funds to the ASF in general.

I hope you can see, all donations to the ASF are here to help everyone, if
we had 30 companies
or 20 charities or 1000 individuals saying 'heres some money, or here is a
server, I only want
the Subversion project to benefit, I only want Apache Forrest to make use of
this shiny new
server, etc.." we would be in chaos. It is just not manageable for 100+
projects. We are
centralised for a reason. Makes infrastructure simpler, and the organising
of volunteers and staff
to look after that infrastructure is easier too. (Not easy, just easier.)

In the long run, donating centrally is easier and will benefit the AOOo
project in more ways than you
know. Having use of the servers paid for by donations of others, as well as
other infrastructure benefits
you, benefits the project. Like it or not, you and the AOOo project are
already using hardware and time
donated by other Sponsors and donators, why not reciprocate that by having
the same happen for
the current donations to OpenOffice.org.? Remember everything you say the
money is for, is already
covered in some shape or form by the ASF. True, we cannot send you to
Bermuda just because you ask,
but we can send you to ApacheCon if you cannot truly afford to go on your
own dime.

This is not a unique situation, other projects that joined also had
previously had directed donations in a
fund or whatever, in some cases they converted over to ASF Sponsorship
program so they could continue
to help in general.

HTH

Gav...



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