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From Rob Weir <>
Subject Re: Suggestion for OOo branding...
Date Sat, 23 Jul 2011 15:17:51 GMT
On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Gianluca Turconi
<> wrote:
> 2011/7/23 Rob Weir <>
> [...]
> In other words, we need people to stand up and say, "I want to do X".
>> "X" is then a proposal that is discussed.  If there are no objections,
>> then the person who volunteered to do "X" does it. (Lazy consensus).
>> If the task is so obviously necessary that no one would reasonably
>> object, then you just do it.  (Everything in SVN can be reversed).
>> What doesn't work as well is having one group of project members make
>> proposals for what another group of project members should do.
>> Suggestions and feedback are always welcome, of course, from everyone
>> in the community.  But what really drives the project forward is the
>> members who say "I will do X".
> [...]
> For things like this, where greater coordination is required, someone
>> should say, "I want to do X, who will join me?".  But no one should be
>> waiting to be led, or waiting for instructions to come down and tell
>> us the direction.  Things happen based more on a volunteer's efforts
>> and less on wishes.
> Please, don't get me wrong, but I'm exactly coming from the same situation
> in the LibO project.
> I had an idea, whose implementation would have been rather time-consuming,
> there was "some" consensus on some lists, I pushed the idea, contacted
> people, started to work and after a huge amount of work hours there was no
> sureness that the idea would have been really implemented as a community
> tool, yet.

Was this a case of there not being enough volunteers to do the work?
Or the work as already done, but the work as not being integrated into
the build?

There are really three kinds of proposals:

1) Good idea, and there are enough people willing to contribute to it
in order to make it happen

2) OK idea, but not a priority for enough people.  So the idea languishes.

3) Bad idea.

#2 is the tricky one, since you may receive no objections on the list,
and it seems like consensus.  But nothing ever happens.   That's why I
think the focus should be on "I would like to do X".  It is the
combination of an idea and a volunteer that makes things happen.

> Finally, what I got it was a lot of frustration that let me come here and
> see how Apache OOo community works.
> I've understood the matter of the lazy consensus, but I'm just trying to
> avoid more frustration. :-)

I understand.  With Apache, all committers have access to the
product's source code and can make changes.  We have over 50
committers who can do that.  However, any committer can also veto any
change to the product by casting a "-1" vote.  However, this veto must
be accompanied by a substantial justification for the objection, as
well as an alternative that they are willing to contribute to.  In
other words, someone cannot just object to a code contribution without
strong reasons and a willingness to contribute to an alternative

So frustration cannot be 100% prevented.  (I wish it could!) But a
good approach to minimizing it is:

1) Describe what you want to do on the list in a [DISCUSSION] thread.
Use this also as an opportunity to solicit for help on the task.

2) If there are no objections and you have the help you need then go
forward to implement.

3) When the changes are ready, then the changes are reviewed, either
before or after committing them.  At this point it is possible you get
a -1.  Even a good idea could be implemented poorly, or introduce a
bug. So you iterate until such technical objections are addressed.

> Indeed, I'm not a professional designer, but I can surely try to find a
> volunteer with suitable skills, if a colored icon set is seen as a need from
> the Community and enough guidelines are provided (colors,
> brand, graphical elements, deadline, ...).
> It may be a classic call for help "We need... , can you help us?" in the
> native language communities. There are a lot of people out there, in the
> larger Community, that *don't* read this mailing list and *may* contribute
> anyway, if they know help is needed.
> Regards,
> Gianluca
> --
> Lettura gratuita o acquisto di libri e racconti di fantascienza,
> fantasy, horror, noir, narrativa fantastica e tradizionale:

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