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From Ross Gardler <rgard...@opendirective.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Project + PPMC Growing Pains
Date Wed, 13 Jul 2011 13:37:51 GMT
Responding as a mentor - not as an OO.o committer...

On 12 July 2011 23:39, Dennis E. Hamilton <orcmid@apache.org> wrote:
> Good point, Rob.  I am not floating a proposal, more an opportunity for discussion.
 Here are some questions:
>
>  1. When should we conclude that the Initial Committers that have arrived are all that
are coming and we should close the door, with all further committers being by invitation of
the PPMC?

I'd suggest sending a notification to all who self-identified that
they have 10 days to either submit an ICLA or indicate that they are
taking advice before signing. The PPMC has been active in chasing
people. It's legitimate to close the door on those who do not respond
to such a request.

For those who are "taking advice" I would give an additional 30 days.

>  2. A person is considered eligible to become a committer when there is an established
pattern of contribution on the project: <http://community.apache.org/newcommitter.html>.
>
>  2.1 To what degree should contributions elsewhere -- a prior reputation -- be taken
into consideration?
>  2.2 For how long should we do this, if at all?

Contributions elsewhere do not count. It is contributions here that
matter. There was plenty of time during proposal time for past
contributors to step up. They did not. Now this is an ASF project
everyone needs to earn merit in the ASF project not in what went
before.

>  3. What do you expect to see as demonstration that the PPMC is being even-handed in
the invitation of new committers?

Consistency in the application of committer selection guidelines.
That, of course, begs the question "what are our selection
guidelines". Personally I don't see any need to define these in
advance.

Anyone on the PPMC can propose anyone for committership. A discussion
will take place and, in most cases a vote will be called. If I, as a
mentor, see someone being inconsistent in their support or obstruction
of any individual I will ask them to justify their position. If their
position is consistent across each case then their opinion is entirely
valid.

Trying to define "rules" for these things does not make any sense, the
types of contribution are just too variable. It is best to just let
these things evolve and deal with them on a case by case basis, openly
and transparently.

>  4. Is it understood why the ooo-security@incubator.apache.org list is being created
and the safeguards that are intended with regard to the security under which matters of security
are raised?

As a mentor I have some concerns about this. The private@ list is for
private project communications. We've already seen far too much
happening on the private@ list (although I am pleased to report to the
ooo-dev list that this practice seems to have stopped now - well done
PPMC members).

That being said, I can see the logic in the argument. as long as this
list is used *only* for security issues it should be fine.

>  5. Most important: This is a learning experience for all of us.  What do you want
cleared up around these growing-pain considerations?

I'll echo Shane's comments here. There is no need to rush things. Let
them evolve naturally. Trying to anticipate issues before they arrive
is likely to result in too much "red tape" around the project.

That being said, again echoing Shane, I think mails like this that are
purposefully designed to increase engagement and transparency will
ensure that most issues are addressed in an appropriate and timely
fashion. Keep up the great work.

Ross


>
>  - Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Weir [mailto:rabastus@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 14:34
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Project + PPMC Growing Pains
>
> Is this intended as a blog post?  It reads like one. In particular I
> don't see any proposals to discuss.
>
> -Rob
>
> On Jul 12, 2011, at 4:30 PM, "Dennis E. Hamilton" <orcmid@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> We are just one month into being the Apache OpenOffice.org Podling.  It is useful
to interesting to take stock of all that is happening and where we are.
>>
>> The main activity that we are all holding our breath over is the reconstitution of
the code base under Apache.  There is also concern for the documentation and web sites and
how they fit under an Apache umbrella.
>>
>> Depending on their interests and specialties, not everyone here is immediately able
to contribute much.  We are in the process of organizing and bringing over and IP-scrubbing
the initial artifacts for the project that will be the foundation for further work.  There
is not much to get our teeth into in terms of actual development until that is sorted out.
 (E.g., we don't have a bug tracker yet and the documentation, localization, and user-facing
folk, including marketing, are still wondering how our project will accommodate them.)
>>
>> Meanwhile, there is also how we organize ourselves to operate as an Apache project.
>>
>> - Dennis
>>
>>    1. BOOTSTRAPPING COMMITTERS AND THE PPMC
>>    2. HOW LONG IS THE OPEN DOOR OPEN?
>>    3. WHAT WILL IT TAKE TO BE A COMMITTER AS TIME GOES ON?
>>    4. WHEN BEING MORE PRIVATE THAN PRIVATE IS IMPORTANT
>>
>>
>> 1. BOOTSTRAPPING COMMITTERS AND THE PPMC
>>
>> The set of Initial Committers is a self-selected group who added their names to the
Initial Committers list on the original incubator proposal.  That's how the podling is bootstrapped.
 Likewise, ooo-dev participation is fully self-selected, and it will stay that way.
>>
>> This means that we are a group of people who have not worked together as a single
Apache project community before, even though there are a variety of mutual acquaintances and
associations in the mix.
>>
>> Of the Initial Committers, a subset were eager to be on the project and have arrived.
That is the overwhelming source of the current 54 committers, 41 also being on the PPMC.
>>
>> 2. HOW LONG IS THE OPEN DOOR OPEN?
>>
>> There are still about two-dozen Initial Committers who have not yet registered an
iCLA. We don't know if they are arriving or not.  One issue is when to close the door on
initial committers who have taken no initiative to be here, although reminders have been sent
out.
>>
>> It is also the case that all initial committers are welcome to participate in the
PPMC but not all have taken action to do so.  At some point, the PPMC will not grow automatically
and that also needs to be resolved.
>>
>> 3. WHAT WILL IT TAKE TO BE A COMMITTER AS TIME GOES ON?
>>
>> We vote on other committers the same as any [P]PMC.  The addition of two invited
committers has already been reported.
>>
>> One thing that concerns the PPMC (who, for all but two members, walked through an
open door) is how and when do we move from consideration of previous reputation and being
known to some of us to a situation where contribution on the podling is the determining factor.
 We're working our way through that.  The PPMC is also concerned that, although the addition
of new committers and new PPMC members is carried out in private, we be transparent about
how we are conducting ourselves and that we demonstrate that we are even-handed about it.
>>
>> It is not clear what the ooo-dev community wants to see and what the understood progression
to the normal rules for invitation of committers should be.
>>
>>
>> 4. WHEN BEING MORE PRIVATE THAN PRIVATE IS IMPORTANT
>>
>> The PPMC is responsible for dealing, quietly and privately, with security matters
and their resolution.  The security@ team informs us that because we have so many members
who are unknown here and also to each other at this point, a limited ooo-security@incubator.apache.org
list is essential.  We need to identify those few among us who have appropriate skills and
sensibilities around security matters and who can keep their work secret when that is appropriate.
>>
>> For this, we want to know who has been on the security teams of OpenOffice.org and
who happen to be here also.  There will also be cross-communication with other security teams
that operate on the same code base, or in some cases, that operate on the same document formats.
>>
>> We will be going ahead with the creation of the private ooo-security list for that
purpose.  What we are waiting for is identification of three moderators who are distributed
around the earth's time zones well enough to provide moderation of incoming reports in something
approximating 24/7 coverage.
>>
>> [end]
>>
>
>



-- 
Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)
OpenDirective http://opendirective.com

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