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From Shane Curcuru <>
Subject Re: Committers and Contributors and PPMC
Date Thu, 14 Jul 2011 20:20:49 GMT
On 7/14/2011 3:45 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> My impression is that voting is done on the list with +1,0,-1
> tabulation.  That is how ballots have happened on the PPMC and it is
> how the ballots on the general@incubator are conducted.

Correct - in virtually all cases voting is done on the appropriate list 
with +1/-1 (and various flavors of +0/-0 if you want to abstain).  Note 
that having the vote results on the mailing list - and there are often 
comments included in votes - helps the whole community, including 
lurkers, to understand how and why decisions are made here at Apache.

Note that each (P)PMC ends up having it's own details of how it reaches 
consensus on dev@ and private@ lists.  Some PMCs indeed only [VOTE] on 
releases and new committers/new PMC members; for other decisions, they 
have a simple discussion that continues until the general consensus of 
the project is obvious (typically with more experienced PMCs).  Other 
PMCs [VOTE] on a variety of issues including significant technical or 
code changes.  Some projects use [VOTE]s, or even better, quick [POLL]s 
just to gauge overall interest in specific new ideas or suggestions - 
like "Hey, is it worth mocking up this crazy idea to see if we should 
implement it?"

I think it will be primarily up to the actual committers on this project 
to decide the general way that consensus is reached on this list.  Note 
that in healthy projects PMC members and committers certainly do pay 
attention to the votes of non-committers on the list!  However only 
committers or PMC members (depending on the kind of vote) cast binding 
votes, since they - especially PMC members - are the ones responsible 
for managing the project.

I think an important concept to document well is that this is the Apache 
OpenOffice podling.  While it shares most of the code and the 
trademarks, and a number of the goals of the project, it 
is *not* the same project, nor will it be exactly the same community.

We need to find a positive and helpful way to say that, so we can manage 
expectations of the many past committers (or contributors) on the project when they come here and expect the same abilities 
to help manage this new project.

- Shane

> The only case I can foresee off hand that might lead to [VOTE], if a
> [DISCUSS] does not demonstrate consensus, might be over the name of
> the project, the deliverable, and the domains of web sites once
> has transferred to Apache and we know the ASF policy,
> legal, and trademark constraints that have to be honored.
> - Dennis
> -----Original Message----- From:
> [] On Behalf Of Alexandro Colorado Sent:
> Thursday, July 14, 2011 12:20 To: Cc:
> Dennis E. Hamilton Subject: Re: Committers and Contributors and PPMC
> On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 2:14 PM, Daniel
> Shahaf<>wrote:
>> Dennis E. Hamilton wrote on Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 11:59:37 -0700:
>>> It is my impression (based on no experience at all) that when
>>> issues come to a vote on the ooo-dev list, PPMC member votes are
>>> binding and the votes of other project contributors and observers
>>> are not, although I am confident that non-binding votes are given
>>> careful attention.
>> That's correct.  Furthermore, voting on technical issues is the
>> very rare exception rather than the rule.  (Read: almost never
>> happens)
>> We strongly prefer to operate by consensus.
> Is this done through a rudimentary process of +1 on mailing lists or
> is there an app to perform quick polling campaings?

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