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From Shane Curcuru <...@shanecurcuru.org>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Project + PPMC Growing Pains
Date Wed, 13 Jul 2011 13:16:16 GMT
Indeed, I would urge PPMC members to push regular posts to the OOo blog. 
  While we do our work here on dev@ in public, it's often easier for the 
greater world to follow a blog posting than it is to follow mailing lists.

 From my perspective (as a mentor, not on the PPMC), here are some 
suggestions:

On 7/12/2011 6:39 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> Good point, Rob.  I am not floating a proposal, more an opportunity
> for discussion.  Here are some questions:
>
> 1. When should we conclude that the Initial Committers that have
> arrived are all that are coming and we should close the door, with
> all further committers being by invitation of the PPMC?

PPMC volunteers should double-check that each Initial Committer has 
definitely been contacted personally, and perhaps send out another email 
to each individual separately reminding them of the invitation and 
setting a deadline (say in a week or so) for accepting the invitation to 
become an initial committer.

If they don't respond positively (or with an obvious "yes I need more 
time!", then take them off the list).  It's been long enough.
>
> 2. A person is considered eligible to become a committer when there
> is an established pattern of contribution on the
> project:<http://community.apache.org/newcommitter.html>.
>
> 2.1 To what degree should contributions elsewhere -- a prior
> reputation -- be taken into consideration? 2.2 For how long should we
> do this, if at all?

This is a tough one.  I wouldn't go too much further at "auto" inviting 
past OOo contributors, because this is a new project community, and it's 
important to see how well potential committers fit into this community. 
  In any case, if you do evaluate past contributions, be sure to include 
an assessment of individuals ability to work with peers in a community.

If you read the newcommitter.html list, you'll notice that the item 
about coding ability comes last on the list.

> 3. What do you expect to see as demonstration that the PPMC is being
> even-handed in the invitation of new committers?

A process just like this one, where the community actively and 
productively discusses the issue here on the dev@ list. 8-)

> 4. Is it understood why the ooo-security@incubator.apache.org list is
> being created and the safeguards that are intended with regard to the
> security under which matters of security are raised?

I would hope so.  The PPMC is responsible for the project as a whole and 
the product (we will be) shipping.  However I would take recommendations 
from the Apache Security team very seriously - they have a lot of 
experience with security and privacy.

> 5. Most important: This is a learning experience for all of us.  What
> do you want cleared up around these growing-pain considerations?

Patience and thoughtful participation are key.  Seriously: this is great 
stuff, and while it seems a little chaotic, it's great to see so many 
people participating and being constructive at figuring out both the 
technical and community issues.

- Shane

>
> - Dennis
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Rob Weir
> [mailto:rabastus@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 14:34 To:
> ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Project + PPMC
> Growing Pains
>
> Is this intended as a blog post?  It reads like one. In particular I
> don't see any proposals to discuss.
>
> -Rob
>
> On Jul 12, 2011, at 4:30 PM, "Dennis E. Hamilton"<orcmid@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
>> We are just one month into being the Apache OpenOffice.org Podling.
>> It is useful to interesting to take stock of all that is happening
>> and where we are.
>>
>> The main activity that we are all holding our breath over is the
>> reconstitution of the code base under Apache.  There is also
>> concern for the documentation and web sites and how they fit under
>> an Apache umbrella.
>>
>> Depending on their interests and specialties, not everyone here is
>> immediately able to contribute much.  We are in the process of
>> organizing and bringing over and IP-scrubbing the initial artifacts
>> for the project that will be the foundation for further work.
>> There is not much to get our teeth into in terms of actual
>> development until that is sorted out.  (E.g., we don't have a bug
>> tracker yet and the documentation, localization, and user-facing
>> folk, including marketing, are still wondering how our project will
>> accommodate them.)
>>
>> Meanwhile, there is also how we organize ourselves to operate as an
>> Apache project.
>>
>> - Dennis
>>
>> 1. BOOTSTRAPPING COMMITTERS AND THE PPMC 2. HOW LONG IS THE OPEN
>> DOOR OPEN? 3. WHAT WILL IT TAKE TO BE A COMMITTER AS TIME GOES ON?
>> 4. WHEN BEING MORE PRIVATE THAN PRIVATE IS IMPORTANT
>>
>>
>> 1. BOOTSTRAPPING COMMITTERS AND THE PPMC
>>
>> The set of Initial Committers is a self-selected group who added
>> their names to the Initial Committers list on the original
>> incubator proposal.  That's how the podling is bootstrapped.
>> Likewise, ooo-dev participation is fully self-selected, and it will
>> stay that way.
>>
>> This means that we are a group of people who have not worked
>> together as a single Apache project community before, even though
>> there are a variety of mutual acquaintances and associations in the
>> mix.
>>
>> Of the Initial Committers, a subset were eager to be on the project
>> and have arrived. That is the overwhelming source of the current 54
>> committers, 41 also being on the PPMC.
>>
>> 2. HOW LONG IS THE OPEN DOOR OPEN?
>>
>> There are still about two-dozen Initial Committers who have not yet
>> registered an iCLA. We don't know if they are arriving or not.  One
>> issue is when to close the door on initial committers who have
>> taken no initiative to be here, although reminders have been sent
>> out.
>>
>> It is also the case that all initial committers are welcome to
>> participate in the PPMC but not all have taken action to do so.  At
>> some point, the PPMC will not grow automatically and that also
>> needs to be resolved.
>>
>> 3. WHAT WILL IT TAKE TO BE A COMMITTER AS TIME GOES ON?
>>
>> We vote on other committers the same as any [P]PMC.  The addition
>> of two invited committers has already been reported.
>>
>> One thing that concerns the PPMC (who, for all but two members,
>> walked through an open door) is how and when do we move from
>> consideration of previous reputation and being known to some of us
>> to a situation where contribution on the podling is the determining
>> factor.  We're working our way through that.  The PPMC is also
>> concerned that, although the addition of new committers and new
>> PPMC members is carried out in private, we be transparent about how
>> we are conducting ourselves and that we demonstrate that we are
>> even-handed about it.
>>
>> It is not clear what the ooo-dev community wants to see and what
>> the understood progression to the normal rules for invitation of
>> committers should be.
>>
>>
>> 4. WHEN BEING MORE PRIVATE THAN PRIVATE IS IMPORTANT
>>
>> The PPMC is responsible for dealing, quietly and privately, with
>> security matters and their resolution.  The security@ team informs
>> us that because we have so many members who are unknown here and
>> also to each other at this point, a limited
>> ooo-security@incubator.apache.org list is essential.  We need to
>> identify those few among us who have appropriate skills and
>> sensibilities around security matters and who can keep their work
>> secret when that is appropriate.
>>
>> For this, we want to know who has been on the security teams of
>> OpenOffice.org and who happen to be here also.  There will also be
>> cross-communication with other security teams that operate on the
>> same code base, or in some cases, that operate on the same document
>> formats.
>>
>> We will be going ahead with the creation of the private
>> ooo-security list for that purpose.  What we are waiting for is
>> identification of three moderators who are distributed around the
>> earth's time zones well enough to provide moderation of incoming
>> reports in something approximating 24/7 coverage.
>>
>> [end]
>>
>

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