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Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
From: Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net>
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Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:54:20 -0700
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To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org


On Jun 27, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net> =
wrote:
>=20
>>=20
>> On Jun 27, 2011, at 8:29 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
>>=20
>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 10:15 AM, Kay Schenk <kay.schenk@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> On 06/27/2011 07:58 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Kay Schenk<kay.schenk@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On 06/27/2011 05:28 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Assuming we're not trying for a "big bang" migration where we =
move
>>>>>>> everything at once, it seems we have two main approaches:
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> 1) Assign existing OpenOffice.org DNS to Apache now.  For =
services
>>>>>>> which we have not yet migrated to Apache we redirect back to =
Oracle's
>>>>>>> server, by IP address.  As additional services are migrated to
>> Apache,
>>>>>>> we remove redirects.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Well given the state of the project as it exists today in the =
Apache
>>>>>> environment, I think this is fraught with MANY problems. What is =
"up"
>> on
>>>>>> Apache right now is really insignificant compared to what is =
available
>>>>>> via
>>>>>> OpenOffice.org. I think before doing this, we'd need to make a =
VERY
>>>>>> comprehensive mapping list of what would be going where.
>>>>>> I don't mean to overburden everyone with "details", but I think a
>>>>>> "migration plan" complete with "areas" and timeframes might be in
>> order.
>>>>>> This would be useful to determine scope as well as creating a
>> reasonable
>>>>>> schedule.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Someone would spend a LOT of time maintaining the redirect =
business.
>>>>>> I'm concerned with acccess "blips" given this approach. Timing is
>>>>>> everything.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Additionally, some people, like me, have edit (committer) rights =
on
>> parts
>>>>>> of the OpenOffice web server to continue to make changes (if only
>>>>>> informative) and no similar rights on Apache. Right now, I'm not =
doing
>>>>>> much
>>>>>> except trying to keep some reasonable info about the move updated =
on
>> the
>>>>>> OpenOffice.org site on some of the primary pages. But...I really =
have
>> NO
>>>>>> idea what others with commit rights are doing on that server at =
the
>>>>>> moment.
>>>>>> This would be interesting to find out.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I havent been able to do any commits to the site yet, but I also =
wonder
>>>>> what
>>>>> is the status of this current site. Is there going to be any SSI? =
Who
>>>>> choosed that template?
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Not sure how to answer this since I don't even know if it HAS a
>> template.
>>>> ????
>>>>=20
>>>> Since I know little about kenai, I don't know anything about it =
handles
>>>> templates, but the site looks pretty much the same as it did before =
the
>>>> move.
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> How can I go about it to change it and if it's good
>>>>=20
>>>>> idea to simply change it as please.
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> The site uses ssh+svn (svn with ssh tunneling) see:
>>>> http://kenai.com/projects/help/pages/SourceControl
>>>>=20
>>>> You need your own private ssh key uploaded through your OO.o =
private
>> key.
>>>>=20
>>>> If you have your own OO.o ID and login, you should be able to see =
what
>>>> projects you are a member of and what rights you have to them.
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>> Sound a bit rookish questions but also wonder what is the =
direction of
>>>>> that
>>>>> site.
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Well...it's my understanding that eventually it will cease to =
exist, at
>>>> some point yet to be determined. Thus, we need to put whatever =
effort we
>> can
>>>> into this new Apache endeavor.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Sorry Kay, I know the Kenai layout, I was asking about Apache-OOo =
new
>> site:
>>> http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/
>>>=20
>>> I think this one is set up here:
>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/
>>>=20
>>> It seems to have some perl(?) scripts:
>>>=20
>> =
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/lib/view.pm?revision=
=3D1137122&view=3Dmarkup
>>>=20
>>> Not sure if its using a framework or just random perl scripts =
holding
>> things
>>> somewhat automated. =46rom what I see there are some Templates =
setup:
>>>=20
>> =
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/templates/skeleton.h=
tml?revision=3D1137122&view=3Dmarkup
>>=20
>> That is the template. The css is here:
>> incubator/ooo/site/trunk/content/openofficeorg/css/ooo.css
>>=20
>=20
> What about the rest of the questions:
> - Do/Will apache.ooo have SSI (PHP/Python/Ruby/Ruby backend)?

This is a really good question, but apparently not. I think that there =
are plenty of reasons for user support to require a dynamic server, but =
I think that is a separate discussion. Rob's discussion about user =
support ideas and your response has me thinking Open Social.

> - What is the direction of this site?

I think we build it and move it around. My thought is that we build the =
new Apache OpenOffice replacement for openoffice.org at  =
http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/www/ with the mdtext at =
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/www/

I think that the initial OpenOffice landing page is pretty nicely done.

> - Who decided on this template?

It was copied from another podling. Feel free to make adjustments under =
lazy consensus.

I did find the following: =
https://svn.apache.org/repos/infra/websites/cms/conversion-utilities/cwiki=
/README.txt

So, we can develop content on OOODEV and then convert it to markdown. =
This would be good to know and test.

Regards,
Dave

>=20
>=20
>>=20
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>>=20
>>> On Kenai, it did had the tigris template, which we drag from =
Collabnet,
>> and
>>> the CSS had some major change to it spreading it across 6 different
>>> stylesheets (before it was only one). And there were of course a =
template
>>> use on most of the projects. BizDev and Education tried a tableless =
CSS
>>> which never made it to production.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> 2) Do it in the opposite direction:   DNS goes to Oracle's =
servers and
>>>>>>> they redirect to Apache for services that we've migrated.  As
>> services
>>>>>>> are migrated we ask Oracle to add additional requests.  When
>>>>>>> everything is migrated then we switch over the DNS.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> This seems like a better idea with less redirection for the time
>> being.
>>>>>> However, this puts control in Oracle's court which may not be
>> desirable.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> #1 seems a lot cleaner to me, and requires less coordination with
>>>>>>> Oracle.  We control the DNS, redirects and generally set the =
pace of
>>>>>>> migration.  But are there protocols beyond http/https that we =
need to
>>>>>>> worry about?  For example, any ftp, smtp, nntp, etc. that would
>>>>>>> complicate things?
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> If we can agree on the general approach I don't see why we =
couldn't
>>>>>>> start some migration this week.  Bugzilla, for example, seems to =
be a
>>>>>>> straightforward.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Well this particular area seems OK. :)
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Really I will do some work via the wiki this week to augment the =
list
>> on
>>>>>> the wiki from my perspective on what needs to be done.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> -Rob
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>=20
>> =
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> MzK
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> "He's got that New Orleans thing crawling all over him, that good
>> stuff,
>>>>>> that 'We Are the Champions', to hell with the rest and
>>>>>> I'll just start over kind of attitude."
>>>>>>                -- "1 Dead in the Attic", Chris Rose
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>> --
>>>> =
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> MzK
>>>>=20
>>>> "He's got that New Orleans thing crawling all over him, that good =
stuff,
>>>> that 'We Are the Champions', to hell with the rest and
>>>> I'll just start over kind of attitude."
>>>>                -- "1 Dead in the Attic", Chris Rose
>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> --
>>> *Alexandro Colorado*
>>> *OpenOffice.org* Espa=F1ol
>>> http://es.openoffice.org
>>=20
>>=20
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> *Alexandro Colorado*
> *OpenOffice.org* Espa=F1ol
> http://es.openoffice.org