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From Alexandro Colorado <...@openoffice.org>
Subject Re: Top level question on website migration
Date Mon, 27 Jun 2011 21:37:10 GMT
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 3:45 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net> wrote:

>
> On Jun 27, 2011, at 1:31 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>
> > ----- Original Message ----
> >
> >> From: Alexandro Colorado <jza@openoffice.org>
> >> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> Cc: Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net>
> >> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 4:25:12 PM
> >> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com
> >wrote:
> >>
> >>> ----- Original Message ----
> >>>
> >>>> From: Alexandro Colorado  <jza@openoffice.org>
> >>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >>>> Cc: Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net>
> >>>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 4:06:43 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: Top level question  on website migration
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:41 PM,  Joe Schaefer <
> joe_schaefer@yahoo.com
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message  ----
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> From: Alexandro Colorado   <jza@openoffice.org>
> >>>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >>>>>> Cc: Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net>
> >>>>>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 3:09:33 PM
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: Top level question  on website migration
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:05 PM,  Daniel Shahaf  <
> >>> d.s@daniel.shahaf.name
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>  Dave Fisher wrote on Mon, Jun  27, 2011 at 11:54:20 -0700:
> >>>>>>>> On Jun  27, 2011, at  10:55 AM, Alexandro Colorado 
wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> What about   the rest of the  questions:
> >>>>>>>>> - Do/Will apache.ooo have   SSI  (PHP/Python/Ruby/Ruby
backend)?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> This is a really good   question, but apparently not.
I think
> >>> that
> >>>>> there
> >>>>>>>> are plenty of  reasons for  user  support to require
a dynamic
> >>> server,
> >>>>>>>> but I think   that is a separate discussion. Rob's 
discussion
> >>> about
> >>>>> user
> >>>>>>>> support  ideas and your response has me thinking Open
  Social.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Server-side includes are supported,  eg
> >>>>>>>   http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/subversion/site/publish/
> >>>>>>> uses  them.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Dynamic content is not  supported.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Static  content (however  generated) is  supported.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Is it  possible to have  some CRUD?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Subversion is CRUD, and much  more.  Really you should take
>  advantage
> >>>>> of what the CMS actually  offers.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Subversion is NOT CRUD. If I want to add a form  to a  site, I can't
> get
> >>> it
> >>>> connect the data to a  datasource in SVN.
> >>>
> >>> The sites are static, but they are generated  from a subversion tree.
>  So
> >>> no,
> >>> you can't "connect to svn"  from the site.  But look at
> www.apache.orgwhich
> >>> has lots of  "dynamic" content tho it is also uses the CMS.
> >>>
> >>>> So having  a  sign up sheet or a
> >>>> locate the closest OOo support center. I  can't make that  with
> >>> Subversion.
> >>>
> >>> It isn't the  point of the main website to provide signup sheets.
>  That's
> >>> something
> >>> a link to a wiki page can provide.  Finding the closest  OOo support
> center
> >>> is
> >>> something a CGI script can do that has  access to read-only data on
> disk.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Well I have ran main websites  for  projects for while, and I have
> missed
> >> this functionality many  times. We also were very frustrated with
> Collbanet
> >> and other structures  asking for true dynamic platform.
> >
> > So far the only person I see expressing frustration over the situation is
> you.
> > If there ever comes a time that a sufficient number of OOo committers can
> > demonstrate
> > some ability to maintain and operate a dynamic website that isn't riddled
> with
> > chronic security flaws, infra will be more than happy to setup a
> jail/virtual os
> > for you to use as you see fit.  In the meantime I suggest you learn to
> make
> > proper
> > use of the CMS.
>
> Joe, thanks for setting the bar. It might be high, but I agree that if we
> (AOOo) decides that we need to have a dynamic website as some type of
> support hub that we have a big task that requires careful design and
> implementation.
>
> If we had a webapps that sits on Tomcat would that help lower the bar, if
> only slightly?
>
> Alexandro, I really like your ideas that you expressed about linking OOo
> users instantly to a support network. Whatever might be developed by AOOo to
> do that will need to be very scalable. And if we mean dynamic then we aren't
> discussing mirrors so much.
>

I don't want to spend too much time talking about this simply because in
LibreOffice this topic was a huge and I mean HUGE flamewar that lasted
longer than a solar storm.  Big +100 emails discussions, pretty scary
scenario.

Leaving that war scar aside, I mean from a simple thing like managing menus
and contents (an all traditional HTML structure is horrible). Things from
news items, to just organizing and updating the menus on every page of the
site is a pain in the butt.
Special campaigns such as monthly web newsletters (in spanish of course). Or
Localize project wide menus (something I remember was a big thing and we did
intense JS hacking to skip that). Was some of the things that could have
been fixed rather easily with few lines of PHP.
I actually started to think on a planet setup (planetplanet written in
python) which generate the whole page from scripts and spew HTML code
everynight from different feeds.  So I can script the whole site dynamically
on my localbox (let say in Python) and scaffolde the site into a folder that
sync with the server everynight.
The issue here of course, is that if you have many maintainers this could
become a problem, just re-writing the whole site everyday and integrating
changes from other people everynight.


>
> There is a lot going on with Apache Lucene and Hadoop and their many
> friends that could be put to use to build an OOo user live QA / social
> network.
>
> But now I'm getting BIG. Would you mind describing a few of the
> frustrations that you had with Collabnet?
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
>
>


-- 
*Alexandro Colorado*
*OpenOffice.org* EspaƱol
http://es.openoffice.org

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