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From Donald Harbison <>
Subject Re: Request for permission to use the OOo Trademark
Date Tue, 28 Jun 2011 15:45:08 GMT
Shane, I'll be happy to assist on 'tracking down the renewal details for
various countries', as you say.


On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 8:14 AM, Shane Curcuru <> wrote:

> On 6/27/2011 9:30 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 9:10 PM, Shane Curcuru<>
>>  wrote:
>>> Just in case other folks missed the tie-in between the different threads:
>>>  branding and trademark policy for all Apache projects is handled on the
>>> privately archived mailing list. Apache policy is
>>> set
>>> by the VP, Brand Management and the associated officer's committee, and
>>> implementation of the policy details is left up to each project's (P)PMC.
>>> Sam pointed to the main trademark policy document below; at some point
>>> once
>>> this project has more of the website migrated to Apache infrastructure,
>>> folks will want to review the Apache Project Branding Requirements for
>>> things that need to be on the project website.
>>> So the decision on licensing Apache marks for things like certification
>>> is
>>> made between the VP, Brand Management and the project's (P)PMC.  Note
>>> that
>>> we have specific policies for domains and events, and I believe the ASF
>>> will
>>> need to further codify and document policies for services and third party
>>> certifications in the future.
>>> Note also that Oracle's intent is indeed to assign all OOo related
>>> trademarks to the ASF, although the legal paperwork is not yet complete.
>>>  Thus, we can't actually license any uses of the OOo marks quite yet.
>>>  8-)
>> OK.  Thanks for the background info, Shane.   Will the PPMC be
>> notified when the trademark transfer has been completed, so we can
>> further discuss Ian's request?
> Of course!  I'll also include the list of all the registrations (and
> applications; the applications were not completed in all the countries it
> was applied for)), and I'll also ask for a PPMC volunteer to help tracking
> down the renewal details for various countries.
> In terms of policies for certifications, we need to ensure that:
> - The ASF as an entity does not take on risk.  We are a public charity with
> a mission to produce software for the public good.  We're happy to have
> third parties take our code and use it for any purposes (as spelled out in
> the license), as long as third parties respect our brands.
> - Apache marks need to be respected.  Thus any certification programs that
> use our marks/logos need to have a clear distinction between the third
> party's certification program and our marks.
> - The ASF does not serve as a certification or standards body.  Thus we
> need to be clear that it's the third party providing the "certification" of
> any results, not the ASF.
> I don't think any of these are difficult, nor should they be a surprise to
> people like Ian; we just need to ensure we clearly specify what the ASF's
> policy is on this first.
> - Shane
>> -Rob
>>  - Shane
>>> On 6/16/2011 8:48 AM, Sam Ruby wrote:
>>>> Reposting with a new subject line, and copying the appropriate
>>>> trademark's mailing list.
>>>> The relevant policy can be found here:
>>>> - Sam Ruby
>>>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 7:52 AM, Ian Lynch<>
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> On 16 June 2011 12:00, Sam Ruby<>    wrote:
>>>>>  On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 6:47 AM, IngridvdM<IngridvdM@gmx-**<>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> I am really in favor of going without anyone being named leader
>>>>>> manager
>>>>>>> or any name that could create the impression that this person
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> rights than the others. Maybe we can choose 'contact' as a neutral
>>>>>>> description in case something turns out to be needed? Or is there
>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> more neutral word?
>>>>>> The only 'contact' that people need for this project is
>>>>>> If this list grows too large or too busy, then we can create
>>>>>> additional 'contacts' in the form of more mailing lists.
>>>>> OK, sounds sensible to try using what already exists until there is a
>>>>> good
>>>>> reason not too :-)
>>>>> Let me test the system ;-)
>>>>> Alexandro Colorado and myself (both been involved with the OOo
>>>>> community
>>>>> for
>>>>> years) have been negotiating with a large training company to provide
>>>>> community backed certification for OOo but with a vector to potentially
>>>>> 1500
>>>>> centres. I previously sought and was granted permission by Oracle to
>>>>> use
>>>>> the
>>>>> OOo branding on certificates. I guess we need community consensus here
>>>>> now,
>>>>> to carry on with that. There is quite a long history to all this and
>>>>> declare a financial interest. I set up a UK government accredited
>>>>> awarding
>>>>> organisation (The Learning Machine Ltd) to enable a mechanism for
>>>>> funding
>>>>> FOSS and CC education development that was independent of licensing ie
>>>>> the
>>>>> business model is QA so no problem licensing any supporting stuff
>>>>> freely.
>>>>> To get started required investment so the only way to do that was to
>>>>> set
>>>>> up
>>>>> a for profit and sell shares. That together with EU grants has put well
>>>>> over
>>>>> £1m of investment into this. We have had some successes such as schools
>>>>> that
>>>>> started using our generic certification with MS products that have now
>>>>> switched to OOo. I can get the FOSS voice heard in influential
>>>>> government
>>>>> places. The strategy is in general to be product neutral but to use
>>>>> FOSS
>>>>> for
>>>>> all exemplars and supporting materials. This gives us a channel to get
>>>>> closed source users at least in contact with FOSS so there is a clear
>>>>> marketing strategy. With OOo certification we can say eg the WP
>>>>> certificate
>>>>> was achieved in the context of OOo Writer and put an OOo logo on the
>>>>> certificate. The assessment criteria are generic so we could do the
>>>>> same
>>>>> with LibO, Koffice etc. or indeed any FOSS software project, Inkscape,
>>>>> Gimp,
>>>>> Audacity etc. WE could even do professional Apache qualifications if
>>>>> there
>>>>> was a demand. Once we work out delivery costs (Its variable and depends
>>>>> on
>>>>> volume) we give a kick back to community funds in return for using the
>>>>> branding. We have the infrastructure in place using a LAMP stack for
>>>>> assessment and certification and Drupal for community support with
>>>>> dynamic
>>>>> links between the 2. Portal is at The acronym INGOT
>>>>> is
>>>>> International Grades - Open Technologies.
>>>>> We are accredited by Ofqual the UK national exam regulators and
>>>>> endorsed
>>>>> by
>>>>> the UK Sector Skills Council for Business and IT. All our
>>>>> qualifications
>>>>> are
>>>>> referenced to the European Qualifications Framework. We have 2 EU
>>>>> Transfer
>>>>> of innovation projects and we are monitored by all these so the
>>>>> community
>>>>> can have some confidence that we "know what we are doing". My
>>>>> background
>>>>> is
>>>>> that I was a UK School Inspection Team leader and assessor of the
>>>>> National
>>>>> Professional Qualification for Headteachers.
>>>>> So what I'm asking for is permission to use the OOo Trademark and
>>>>> general
>>>>> community support.
>>>>> Trying to keep this reasonably short so please feel free to ask any
>>>>> questions.
>>>>> --
>>>>> Ian
>>>>> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
>>>>> +44 (0)1827 305940
>>>>> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
>>>>> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
>>>>> Wales.

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