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From Kay Schenk <>
Subject Re: Contributors versus Committers versus PMC members
Date Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:21:53 GMT
Hello Rob, * -- see below

On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 6:48 AM, Rob Weir <> wrote:

> Since almost all of us are new to Apache we're learning a lot about
> how Apache projects organize themselves.  Based on my reading, I
> understand that Apache projects have three degrees of participation:
> 1) Developer (or Contributor might be the preferred term, since it
> doesn't depend on coding), who is a project member that contributes
> patches, helps with support, reports bugs, etc.  The main thing they
> cannot do is commit changes directly to the product repository.  They
> need to submit patches, which are then reviewed and checked in by a
> "committer".
> 2) Committers are elected based on their sustained contributions to
> the project.  They have an apache userid and email alias.  They can
> commit changes to the repository.  They are also responsible for
> reviewing patches submitted by other contributors.  A Committer must
> have an ICLA on file.

What "substantially" is the difference between #1 and #2? I mean in terms of
actual actions. I submitted a CLA yesterday, and was told I needed to "voted
in", presumably for #1. What I would LIKE to do is make some simple changes
to what Apache considers our "primary" web site,

for this, I am told/see, I need an Apache userid, which to my knowledge i do
not have. So, how to to go about this...

> 3) Project Management Committee (PMC) are Committers or Contributors
> who are elected, based on merit, to help provide oversight to the
> project.  They approve releases and elected new Committers and PMC
> members.

With respect to this. One of the first things I would put on our "new" site
is the actual list of our PMC along with some better instructions as to what
one is supposed to do.

I am still VERY confused over the use of


but if you look at any of the other Apache project websites, I think you'll
get a general idea of the "look and feel" of them.

OK, I KNOW we have a LOT to discuss. But, I would just like to "fix up" the
main site a bit, so people coming over to have a look, actually have
something reasonable to look at and have some idea about what's going on.

Thanks, and please vote me in for an Apache ID. :)

> As the Apache OpenOffice podling was bootstrapped, all of the
> volunteers who signed up on the wiki, before the vote, were
> automatically able to become Commtters and PPMC members.  But to
> actually take on those roles, a number of steps needed to occur,
> mainly dependent on the new member submitting the Apache ICLA.  Once
> that is done, account creation, etc. takes some time, but is routine.
> What we need to decide going forward is how we define the details of
> the Contributor/Committer/PPMC roles.

yes...some of this is already defined vis a vis Apache, but I don't know how
they're maintained.

> Specifically:
> 1) In the future, will all Committers be PPMC members?  In other
> words, will these two groups be identical?  I've heard that other
> Apache projects have a subset of Committers serve on the PMC, but they
> rotate membership, so all Committers get a chance to be on the PMC.

Boy, I would not think this group would be identical. The PPMC votes on all
new additions. I think it might unwieldy, but ???

> 2) If the Committer and PPMC groups are not identical, then what
> criteria should we use to determine who becomes a PPMC member?

maybe define a structure for the PPMC and vote on the PPMC membership from
the current community?

> 3) If someone is offered the role of Committer, how long do they have
> to sign ICLA?
> 4) If someone is an incredible contributor to the project, say in
> testing or event planning, can they become a PPMC member?   Would they
> need to sign the ICLA even if they are never actually need to commit
> project resources?  In other words, can someone be a PMC member
> without being a Committer?

why not?

>  Or should we think of these as being
> progressive degrees of involvement, strictly Contributor --> Committer
> --> PMC member?

Well I don't see why. I see PMC more as "managers" but that's just my

> 5) Is there an term limit on PPMC membership, or criterion for
> sustained contributions and activity level?  In other words, is it a
> case of "Once elected, always a PMC member"?
> 6) Similar for Committers.  Is there a minimum threshold level of
> activity that is needed to sustain that role?

good question...and one that should be addressed if no other reason then
security to the site(s).

> -Rob


"He's got that New Orleans thing crawling all over him, that good stuff,
'We Are the Champions', to hell with the rest and I'll just start over kind
of attitude."
                  — "1 Dead in the Attic", Chris Rose

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