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From Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net>
Subject Re: Contributors versus Committers versus PMC members
Date Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:51:37 GMT

On Jun 24, 2011, at 8:21 AM, Kay Schenk wrote:

> Hello Rob, * -- see below
> 
> On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 6:48 AM, Rob Weir <apache@robweir.com> wrote:
> 
>> Since almost all of us are new to Apache we're learning a lot about
>> how Apache projects organize themselves.  Based on my reading, I
>> understand that Apache projects have three degrees of participation:
>> 
>> 1) Developer (or Contributor might be the preferred term, since it
>> doesn't depend on coding), who is a project member that contributes
>> patches, helps with support, reports bugs, etc.  The main thing they
>> cannot do is commit changes directly to the product repository.  They
>> need to submit patches, which are then reviewed and checked in by a
>> "committer".
>> 
>> 2) Committers are elected based on their sustained contributions to
>> the project.  They have an apache userid and email alias.  They can
>> commit changes to the repository.  They are also responsible for
>> reviewing patches submitted by other contributors.  A Committer must
>> have an ICLA on file.
>> 
> 
> What "substantially" is the difference between #1 and #2? I mean in terms of
> actual actions. I submitted a CLA yesterday, and was told I needed to "voted
> in", presumably for #1.

You do not need to be voted for #1.

For #1 you submit your work as patches, through the community wiki (documentation), or the
issue tracker (not decided yet)

You get voted on for #2 and an ICLA on file helps speed the process.

Once you are a Committer you are trusted to make changes on your won.

> What I would LIKE to do is make some simple changes
> to what Apache considers our "primary" web site,
> 
> http://incubator.apache.org/projects/openofficeorg.html

This is the podling status page and is a checklist for the podling's progress through the
Incubator. AFAIK this can only be changed by someone on the Incubator PMC. I was going to
ask about this, as it needs an update of the Wiki links and progress.

> for this, I am told/see, I need an Apache userid, which to my knowledge i do
> not have. So, how to to go about this...

You must be voted on by the PPMC to become a Committer.

Here are instructions for editing the Main site. - http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/

http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/developer-faqs.html

I see these ought to explain how to submit a patch for the markdown text.

If you have a patch then send an email with [PATCH] in the subject to ooo-dev and an svn diff
in the content. A committer should pick it up. A patch can be prepared using "svn diff". See
other threads for svn help.

Does this help?

Regards,
Dave

> 
> 
>> 3) Project Management Committee (PMC) are Committers or Contributors
>> who are elected, based on merit, to help provide oversight to the
>> project.  They approve releases and elected new Committers and PMC
>> members.
>> 
> 
> With respect to this. One of the first things I would put on our "new" site
> is the actual list of our PMC along with some better instructions as to what
> one is supposed to do.
> 
> I am still VERY confused over the use of
> 
> http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/
> 
> vs
> 
> http://incubator.apache.org/projects/openofficeorg.html
> 
> 
> but if you look at any of the other Apache project websites, I think you'll
> get a general idea of the "look and feel" of them.
> 
> OK, I KNOW we have a LOT to discuss. But, I would just like to "fix up" the
> main site a bit, so people coming over to have a look, actually have
> something reasonable to look at and have some idea about what's going on.
> 
> Thanks, and please vote me in for an Apache ID. :)
> 
> 
>> As the Apache OpenOffice podling was bootstrapped, all of the
>> volunteers who signed up on the wiki, before the vote, were
>> automatically able to become Commtters and PPMC members.  But to
>> actually take on those roles, a number of steps needed to occur,
>> mainly dependent on the new member submitting the Apache ICLA.  Once
>> that is done, account creation, etc. takes some time, but is routine.
>> 
>> What we need to decide going forward is how we define the details of
>> the Contributor/Committer/PPMC roles.
>> 
> 
> yes...some of this is already defined vis a vis Apache, but I don't know how
> they're maintained.
> 
> 
>> 
>> Specifically:
>> 
>> 1) In the future, will all Committers be PPMC members?  In other
>> words, will these two groups be identical?  I've heard that other
>> Apache projects have a subset of Committers serve on the PMC, but they
>> rotate membership, so all Committers get a chance to be on the PMC.
>> 
> 
> Boy, I would not think this group would be identical. The PPMC votes on all
> new additions. I think it might unwieldy, but ???
> 
> 
>> 2) If the Committer and PPMC groups are not identical, then what
>> criteria should we use to determine who becomes a PPMC member?
>> 
> 
> maybe define a structure for the PPMC and vote on the PPMC membership from
> the current community?
> 
> 
>> 3) If someone is offered the role of Committer, how long do they have
>> to sign ICLA?
>> 
>> 4) If someone is an incredible contributor to the project, say in
>> testing or event planning, can they become a PPMC member?   Would they
>> need to sign the ICLA even if they are never actually need to commit
>> project resources?  In other words, can someone be a PMC member
>> without being a Committer?
> 
> 
> why not?
> 
> 
>> Or should we think of these as being
>> progressive degrees of involvement, strictly Contributor --> Committer
>> --> PMC member?
>> 
> 
> Well I don't see why. I see PMC more as "managers" but that's just my
> opinion.
> 
> 
>> 
>> 5) Is there an term limit on PPMC membership, or criterion for
>> sustained contributions and activity level?  In other words, is it a
>> case of "Once elected, always a PMC member"?
>> 
>> 6) Similar for Committers.  Is there a minimum threshold level of
>> activity that is needed to sustain that role?
>> 
> 
> good question...and one that should be addressed if no other reason then
> security to the site(s).
> 
> 
>> 
>> -Rob
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> MzK
> 
> "He's got that New Orleans thing crawling all over him, that good stuff,
> that
> 'We Are the Champions', to hell with the rest and I'll just start over kind
> of attitude."
>                  — "1 Dead in the Attic", Chris Rose


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