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From Kay Schenk <kay.sch...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Contributors versus Committers versus PMC members
Date Fri, 24 Jun 2011 18:59:39 GMT
Hi Dave...

On 06/24/2011 08:51 AM, Dave Fisher wrote:
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 8:21 AM, Kay Schenk wrote:
>
>> Hello Rob, * -- see below
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 6:48 AM, Rob Weir<apache@robweir.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> Since almost all of us are new to Apache we're learning a lot about
>>> how Apache projects organize themselves.  Based on my reading, I
>>> understand that Apache projects have three degrees of participation:
>>>
>>> 1) Developer (or Contributor might be the preferred term, since it
>>> doesn't depend on coding), who is a project member that contributes
>>> patches, helps with support, reports bugs, etc.  The main thing they
>>> cannot do is commit changes directly to the product repository.  They
>>> need to submit patches, which are then reviewed and checked in by a
>>> "committer".
>>>
>>> 2) Committers are elected based on their sustained contributions to
>>> the project.  They have an apache userid and email alias.  They can
>>> commit changes to the repository.  They are also responsible for
>>> reviewing patches submitted by other contributors.  A Committer must
>>> have an ICLA on file.
>>>
>> What "substantially" is the difference between #1 and #2? I mean in terms of
>> actual actions. I submitted a CLA yesterday, and was told I needed to "voted
>> in", presumably for #1.
> You do not need to be voted for #1.
>
> For #1 you submit your work as patches, through the community wiki (documentation), or
the issue tracker (not decided yet)

OK...

> You get voted on for #2 and an ICLA on file helps speed the process.
>
> Once you are a Committer you are trusted to make changes on your won.
>
>> What I would LIKE to do is make some simple changes
>> to what Apache considers our "primary" web site,
>>
>> http://incubator.apache.org/projects/openofficeorg.html
> This is the podling status page and is a checklist for the podling's progress through
the Incubator. AFAIK this can only be changed by someone on the Incubator PMC. I was going
to ask about this, as it needs an update of the Wiki links and progress.
>
>> for this, I am told/see, I need an Apache userid, which to my knowledge i do
>> not have. So, how to to go about this...
> You must be voted on by the PPMC to become a Committer.
>
> Here are instructions for editing the Main site. - http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/
>
> http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/developer-faqs.html
>
> I see these ought to explain how to submit a patch for the markdown text.

OK, yes, I saw this. Really I was confused as to what should be 
considered the "main site". I made some changes to what is currently the 
"main" Openoffice.org site --- www.openoffice.org -- and based on this 
additional explanation, I will change that site again to follow this.


> If you have a patch then send an email with [PATCH] in the subject to ooo-dev and an
svn diff in the content. A committer should pick it up. A patch can be prepared using "svn
diff". See other threads for svn help.
>
> Does this help?

Well...I think so.  Still a big foggy but really as a long-time  
participant, I just wanted to steer folks continuing to go to 
www.openoffice.org in the right direction for continued participation 
and to make their arrival at the new destination seem inviting.

> Regards,
> Dave
>
>>
>>> 3) Project Management Committee (PMC) are Committers or Contributors
>>> who are elected, based on merit, to help provide oversight to the
>>> project.  They approve releases and elected new Committers and PMC
>>> members.
>>>
>> With respect to this. One of the first things I would put on our "new" site
>> is the actual list of our PMC along with some better instructions as to what
>> one is supposed to do.
>>
>> I am still VERY confused over the use of
>>
>> http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/
>>
>> vs
>>
>> http://incubator.apache.org/projects/openofficeorg.html
>>
>>
>> but if you look at any of the other Apache project websites, I think you'll
>> get a general idea of the "look and feel" of them.
>>
>> OK, I KNOW we have a LOT to discuss. But, I would just like to "fix up" the
>> main site a bit, so people coming over to have a look, actually have
>> something reasonable to look at and have some idea about what's going on.
>>
>> Thanks, and please vote me in for an Apache ID. :)
>>
>>
>>> As the Apache OpenOffice podling was bootstrapped, all of the
>>> volunteers who signed up on the wiki, before the vote, were
>>> automatically able to become Commtters and PPMC members.  But to
>>> actually take on those roles, a number of steps needed to occur,
>>> mainly dependent on the new member submitting the Apache ICLA.  Once
>>> that is done, account creation, etc. takes some time, but is routine.
>>>
>>> What we need to decide going forward is how we define the details of
>>> the Contributor/Committer/PPMC roles.
>>>
>> yes...some of this is already defined vis a vis Apache, but I don't know how
>> they're maintained.
>>
>>
>>> Specifically:
>>>
>>> 1) In the future, will all Committers be PPMC members?  In other
>>> words, will these two groups be identical?  I've heard that other
>>> Apache projects have a subset of Committers serve on the PMC, but they
>>> rotate membership, so all Committers get a chance to be on the PMC.
>>>
>> Boy, I would not think this group would be identical. The PPMC votes on all
>> new additions. I think it might unwieldy, but ???
>>
>>
>>> 2) If the Committer and PPMC groups are not identical, then what
>>> criteria should we use to determine who becomes a PPMC member?
>>>
>> maybe define a structure for the PPMC and vote on the PPMC membership from
>> the current community?
>>
>>
>>> 3) If someone is offered the role of Committer, how long do they have
>>> to sign ICLA?
>>>
>>> 4) If someone is an incredible contributor to the project, say in
>>> testing or event planning, can they become a PPMC member?   Would they
>>> need to sign the ICLA even if they are never actually need to commit
>>> project resources?  In other words, can someone be a PMC member
>>> without being a Committer?
>>
>> why not?
>>
>>
>>> Or should we think of these as being
>>> progressive degrees of involvement, strictly Contributor -->  Committer
>>> -->  PMC member?
>>>
>> Well I don't see why. I see PMC more as "managers" but that's just my
>> opinion.
>>
>>
>>> 5) Is there an term limit on PPMC membership, or criterion for
>>> sustained contributions and activity level?  In other words, is it a
>>> case of "Once elected, always a PMC member"?
>>>
>>> 6) Similar for Committers.  Is there a minimum threshold level of
>>> activity that is needed to sustain that role?
>>>
>> good question...and one that should be addressed if no other reason then
>> security to the site(s).
>>
>>
>>> -Rob
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> MzK
>>
>> "He's got that New Orleans thing crawling all over him, that good stuff,
>> that
>> 'We Are the Champions', to hell with the rest and I'll just start over kind
>> of attitude."
>>                   � "1 Dead in the Attic", Chris Rose

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
MzK

"He's got that New Orleans thing crawling all over him, that good stuff,
  that 'We Are the Champions', to hell with the rest and
  I'll just start over kind of attitude."
                   -- "1 Dead in the Attic", Chris Rose


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