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From Joe Schaefer <joe_schae...@yahoo.com>
Subject Re: Top level question on website migration
Date Mon, 27 Jun 2011 22:17:12 GMT
None of what's done at Kenai or Collabnet has any bearing
on how the Apache CMS works.  Did you know it's compatible
with httpd's content negotiation features, so you can serve
up custom pages for each language?



>
>From: Alexandro Colorado <jza@openoffice.org>
>To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>Cc: Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com>
>Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 6:12:07 PM
>Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
>
>
>
>
>On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 4:56 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>>On Jun 27, 2011, at 2:37 PM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 3:45 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 27, 2011, at 1:31 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Alexandro Colorado <jza@openoffice.org>
>>>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> Cc: Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net>
>>>>>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 4:25:12 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: Alexandro Colorado  <jza@openoffice.org>
>>>>>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>> Cc: Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 4:06:43 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Top level question  on website migration
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:41 PM,  Joe Schaefer <
>>>> joe_schaefer@yahoo.com
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message  ----
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> From: Alexandro Colorado   <jza@openoffice.org>
>>>>>>>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 3:09:33 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Top level question  on website migration
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:05 PM,  Daniel Shahaf 
<
>>>>>>> d.s@daniel.shahaf.name
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Dave Fisher wrote on Mon, Jun  27, 2011 at 11:54:20
-0700:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun  27, 2011, at  10:55 AM, Alexandro
Colorado  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What about   the rest of the  questions:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Do/Will apache.ooo have   SSI  (PHP/Python/Ruby/Ruby
backend)?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This is a really good   question, but apparently
not. I think
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>> are plenty of  reasons for  user  support
to require a dynamic
>>>>>>> server,
>>>>>>>>>>>> but I think   that is a separate discussion.
Rob's  discussion
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>> user
>>>>>>>>>>>> support  ideas and your response has me thinking
Open   Social.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Server-side includes are supported,  eg
>>>>>>>>>>>  http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/subversion/site/publish/
>>>>>>>>>>> uses  them.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Dynamic content is not  supported.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Static  content (however  generated) is  supported.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Is it  possible to have  some CRUD?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Subversion is CRUD, and much  more.  Really you should
take
>>>> advantage
>>>>>>>>> of what the CMS actually  offers.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Subversion is NOT CRUD. If I want to add a form  to a  site,
I can't
>>>> get
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> connect the data to a  datasource in SVN.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The sites are static, but they are generated  from a subversion
tree.
>>>> So
>>>>>>> no,
>>>>>>> you can't "connect to svn"  from the site.  But look at
>>>> www.apache.orgwhich
>>>>>>> has lots of  "dynamic" content tho it is also uses the CMS.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So having  a  sign up sheet or a
>>>>>>>> locate the closest OOo support center. I  can't make that
 with
>>>>>>> Subversion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It isn't the  point of the main website to provide signup sheets.
>>>> That's
>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>> a link to a wiki page can provide.  Finding the closest  OOo
support
>>>> center
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> something a CGI script can do that has  access to read-only data
on
>>>> disk.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well I have ran main websites  for  projects for while, and I have
>>>> missed
>>>>>> this functionality many  times. We also were very frustrated with
>>>> Collbanet
>>>>>> and other structures  asking for true dynamic platform.
>>>>>
>>>>> So far the only person I see expressing frustration over the situation
is
>>>> you.
>>>>> If there ever comes a time that a sufficient number of OOo committers
can
>>>>> demonstrate
>>>>> some ability to maintain and operate a dynamic website that isn't riddled
>>>> with
>>>>> chronic security flaws, infra will be more than happy to setup a
>>>> jail/virtual os
>>>>> for you to use as you see fit.  In the meantime I suggest you learn to
>>>> make
>>>>> proper
>>>>> use of the CMS.
>>>>
>>>> Joe, thanks for setting the bar. It might be high, but I agree that if we
>>>> (AOOo) decides that we need to have a dynamic website as some type of
>>>> support hub that we have a big task that requires careful design and
>>>> implementation.
>>>>
>>>> If we had a webapps that sits on Tomcat would that help lower the bar, if
>>>> only slightly?
>>>>
>>>> Alexandro, I really like your ideas that you expressed about linking OOo
>>>> users instantly to a support network. Whatever might be developed by AOOo

to
>>>> do that will need to be very scalable. And if we mean dynamic then we 
aren't
>>>> discussing mirrors so much.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't want to spend too much time talking about this simply because in
>>> LibreOffice this topic was a huge and I mean HUGE flamewar that lasted
>>> longer than a solar storm.  Big +100 emails discussions, pretty scary
>>> scenario.
>>
>>Understood. It does help to have specific examples so we really are talking 
>>about the same topic.
>>
>>>
>>> Leaving that war scar aside, I mean from a simple thing like managing menus
>>> and contents (an all traditional HTML structure is horrible). Things from
>>> news items, to just organizing and updating the menus on every page of the
>>> site is a pain in the butt.
>>
>>Menus are in one place - sidenav.mdtext
>>

Right the issue becomes what happens when I need a localized menu and who has 
access to that chunk of data?

Kenai and Collabnet both worked the same way, they had multiple chunks of HTML 
that could be modular, except the access was restricted and dialog was slow. So 
we never got arround the localization issue. 


If you look at http://es.openoffice.org you will see that is heavily modified 
and a lot of CSS-display: none was used so we could use what we needed. 
Obviously all this are hacks and what it shouldt be. Ideally we would have our 
own HTML chunk that we can modify as needed. Hopefully easier like a YAML 
structure. 

 

>> Special campaigns such as monthly web newsletters (in spanish of course). Or
>> Localize project wide menus (something I remember was a big thing and we did
>> intense JS hacking to skip that). Was some of the things that could have
>> been fixed rather easily with few lines of PHP.
>> I actually started to think on a planet setup (planetplanet written in
>> python) which generate the whole page from scripts and spew HTML code
>> everynight from different feeds.  So I can script the whole site dynamically
>> on my localbox (let say in Python) and scaffolde the site into a folder that
>> sync with the server everynight.
>
>You can do that in your people.apache.org account and cron the site build in the 
>CMS.
>
>
>> The issue here of course, is that if you have many maintainers this could
>> become a problem, just re-writing the whole site everyday and integrating
>> changes from other people everynight.
>
>Someone would need to delegate and if the person who does the cron disappears 
>then we have trouble and need to ask Infra to bypass, a real PITA.
>
>A problem for later. ONce we have scripts, maybe we can ask for a project 
>account on people to handle this.
>
>ooo-commits would then track the website changes as they semi-dynamically 
occur.
>
>Regards,
>Dave
>
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> There is a lot going on with Apache Lucene and Hadoop and their many
>>> friends that could be put to use to build an OOo user live QA / social
>>> network.
>>>
>>> But now I'm getting BIG. Would you mind describing a few of the
>>> frustrations that you had with Collabnet?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Alexandro Colorado*
>> *OpenOffice.org* Español
>> http://es.openoffice.org
>
>
>
>
>-- 
>Alexandro Colorado
>OpenOffice.org Español
>http://es.openoffice.org
>
>
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