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From Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net>
Subject Re: New goals for OOo
Date Wed, 22 Jun 2011 22:50:41 GMT
No apologies needed. I am just saying that we are starting by doing work and that work required
that we build an initial foundation.

We promise to listen to the community your points may or may not be an accurate prediction
of the future. We'll see!

> Apologise me, I don't want accuse of something You or the PPMC
> community. I have very big respect for You and people in this group.

You have nothing to apologize for.

> Of course I won't help as I can at the moment. We can discuss parallel
> to migration process. Of course this need very much time and work. Any
> discuss need this too.

If you would like to help the project here are roles: http://apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#roles

> I try address some base questions today without emotions or repine to
> Sun, Oracle or Mrs Luke Kowalski.

I had to google that, if Mr Luke Kowalski wishes to participate here then he is welcome on
the same basis as everyone else. He might need a CCLA.

> You with others people try to reborn OOo. This process need answer to
> some base questions. At the moment we can start do it.

If you would like to talk about architecture of the code moving forward that is something
I would be interested in discussing. I think that needs less hurry than IP clearance, a first
build with some non-english languages, and supporting project infrastructure migration.

Perhaps that explains why we are a little reluctant to over-speculate on a final outcome.

Since we all peers here, please feel free to create some detailed ideas on a wiki page in
the Community Wiki.

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Wiki+Home

Regards,
Dave

> 
> 2011/6/22 Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net>:
>> Grzegorz,
>> 
>> What have we accomplished in 9 days?
>> 
>> People are going through the grant to find what's missing, there were a large number
of emails on ooo-dev since last Monday.
>> 
>> We have a Wiki (2 actually) and we have a project website, these are skeletons that
people are beginning to populate.
>> 
>> We found on the OOo wiki with the latest infrastructure migration at Oracle that
occurred in Feb 2011.
>> 
>> We have identified some of the individuals that will help us with migration.
>> 
>> The Podling Project Management Committee (PPMC) is beginning to function, this includes
getting used to an apache account and SVN.
>> 
>> Everyone should be exposed to everything right now.
>> 
>> What are your interests? Please introduce yourself!
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>> On Jun 22, 2011, at 2:32 PM, Grzegorz Rajda wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> This is best time to talk about goals. Migrating to new infrastructure
>>> is best time to hard thinking about whole project.
>>> 
>>> In my base conception we should use minimal structure for new OOo. In
>>> my level this should view like that:
>>> 1. users (they don't know anythings except release version program,
>>> they performance and stable working in they work),
>>> 2. translators (they don't want develop, but can translate contents to
>>> native languages), template designers, web page maintainers etc.
>>> (publishers at all),
>>> 3. developers (big group with inner structure with access to
>>> sub-repositories and own goals)
>>> - testers - with higher priority bugs (than normal users) report, test
>>> case prepare and check before release version
>>> - coders - you can try guess :)
>>> - user interface planing and resource preparing -> images, new
>>> interfaces concepts etc.
>>> - planing headmasters - create compact specification and development
>>> road map. (decision level)
>>> 
>>> I create first message based on this. Please forgive me if I start
>>> this topic too early, but as You can see, this have very deep
>>> consequences.
>>> 
>>> 3 master groups is enough to create efficiently best office software.
>>> We can easy visual this as flow and apply on creating new structure.
>>> 
>>> I have question for everybody: What we have accomplish?
>>> 
>>> At the moment we have only this:
>>> http://www.chip.pl/images/logotypy/tumblr_kvgfz0ehyf1qacd5ko1_500.jpg/image_mini
>>> http://lwn.net/Articles/446093/
>>> 
>>> That's isn't enough...
>>> 
>>> 2011/6/22 Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net>:
>>>> 
>>>> On Jun 22, 2011, at 12:25 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 6:25 PM, Grzegorz Rajda <mellonedain@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>>> Good evening,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> All write this to other mailing-list as response to mail from Key
Schenk. I
>>>>>> wan't discus this with You and back to OOo development. What You
think about
>>>>>> that?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Last changes in infrastructure (Oracle, LibreOffice etc.) needs from
us new
>>>>>> goals to create reborn release of OOo. I have some ideas and proposals.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 1. Easy structure:
>>>>>> - one page in native languages (auto-detect language, use right strings)
>>>>>> - one repository for code (if somebody can commit, they can do something
for
>>>>>> whole source code, one method, without individual keys)
>>>>>> - one bug-tracker for any language with bugs merging (developers
who know
>>>>>> english and navive lang should merge bug reports.)
>>>>>> - one code, one standard, one development guide for everyone. (should
have
>>>>>> specification of interface planing/create and programming)
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> "Make things as simple as possible, but no simpler", as Einstein said.
>>>>> 
>>>>> There is a natural tendency toward fragmentation and wall-building.
>>>>> Coordination has a cost and it is very easy to break into small
>>>>> groups, by language, as well as by function groups (QA, marketing,
>>>>> etc.) and to further subdivide by sub-functionary areas.  That is how
>>>>> bureaucracies form.  "I am the chief  assistant secretary to the
>>>>> assistant chief director".  It is also how specialists find a
>>>>> specialty.  "I am a ear doctor, but I specialize in left ears only".
>>>>> 
>>>>> So there are danger of having too many groups.  It narrows the our
>>>>> focus, I think.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On the other hand, we probably cannot put 200 active people into a
>>>>> single mailing list.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So I'd propose that we answer the question:  What is the *least*
>>>>> amount of project structure necessary for us to succeed?  We can
>>>>> always add more structure and more layers later.  But once we've built
>>>>> community walls, it is hard to later tear them down.
>>>> 
>>>> I propose that we use ooo-dev - there are some good long running threads
going.
>>>> 
>>>> Until we start seeing how the native language projects go, then we can evaluate
the true need and available support for additional mailing lists.
>>>> 
>>>> I think the "Commit then Review" committer/PPMC member peer group vs. the
"Review then Commit" developers with and without ICLA is a big distinction.
>>>> 
>>>> We've been overusing ooo-private (because there is a lot to establish and
learn) we need to stop and make sure that we are all one community on one list. It's going
to be chaotic, but a new order will form.
>>>> 
>>>> Individuals now have the option of using the Community Wiki to put together
ideas and then come here and discuss these and refine them. I've got some about PDF workflow,
but I am waiting for awhile ...
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Dave
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Rob
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Result:
>>>>>> - openoffice.org - in native language direct
>>>>>> - openoffice.org - easy to use one support (language automatic)
>>>>>> - openoffice.org - have only required and optional files in source
code
>>>>>> repository
>>>>>> - openoffice.org - have easy to contribute web interface (for example
for
>>>>>> translating [web, help, etc.])
>>>>>> - openoffice.org - easy to programmers contribution,
>>>>>> - openoffice.org - is best than MS Office in all releases!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 2. In future:
>>>>>> - every day we have new developers
>>>>>> - every day we have more optimized algorithms
>>>>>> - every day we have best closed standards reverse engineering
>>>>>> - every day we have more happy users
>>>>>> - every day we win in all categories with our competition!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> We can do it together! How You think?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>> Grzegorz alias Mellonedain
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Pozdrawiam,
>>> Grzegorz
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Pozdrawiam,
> Grzegorz


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