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From Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net>
Subject Re: Top level question on website migration
Date Mon, 27 Jun 2011 21:04:27 GMT

On Jun 27, 2011, at 1:54 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:

> ----- Original Message ----
> 
>> From: Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net>
>> To: Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com>
>> Cc: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 4:45:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: Top level question on website migration
>> 
>> 
>> On Jun 27, 2011, at 1:31 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>> 
>>> ----- Original  Message ----
>>> 
>>>> From: Alexandro Colorado <jza@openoffice.org>
>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>> Cc: Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net>
>>>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 4:25:12 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Top level question  on website migration
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 3:18 PM,  Joe Schaefer 
>> <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com>wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: Alexandro Colorado  <jza@openoffice.org>
>>>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> Cc: Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net>
>>>>>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 4:06:43 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Top level  question  on website migration
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On  Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:41 PM,  Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ----- Original  Message  ----
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> From:  Alexandro Colorado   <jza@openoffice.org>
>>>>>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>> Cc: Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 3:09:33 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re:  Top level question  on website migration
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:05 PM,  Daniel  Shahaf  <
>>>>> d.s@daniel.shahaf.name
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Dave  Fisher wrote on Mon, Jun  27, 2011 at 11:54:20
 -0700:
>>>>>>>>>> On Jun  27, 2011, at  10:55  AM, Alexandro Colorado
 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> What  about   the rest of the   questions:
>>>>>>>>>>> - Do/Will apache.ooo  have   SSI  (PHP/Python/Ruby/Ruby
 backend)?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> This is a really good   question, but  apparently
not. I think
>>>>> that
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>> are plenty of  reasons for   user  support to require
a dynamic
>>>>> server,
>>>>>>>>>> but I think   that is a  separate discussion. Rob's
 discussion
>>>>> about
>>>>>>> user
>>>>>>>>>> support  ideas and your response has me thinking
Open    Social.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Server-side includes are supported,   eg
>>>>>>>>>   http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/subversion/site/publish/
>>>>>>>>> uses  them.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Dynamic content is not   supported.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Static  content (however  generated) is   supported.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Is it  possible to have  some  CRUD?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Subversion is CRUD, and  much  more.  Really you should take
  advantage
>>>>>>> of what the CMS actually   offers.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Subversion is NOT CRUD. If I want to add a form  to a  site, I can't
 
> get
>>>>> it
>>>>>> connect the data to a   datasource in SVN.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The sites are static, but  they are generated  from a subversion tree.
 So
>>>>> no,
>>>>> you can't "connect to svn"  from the site.  But  look at 
>> www.apache.orgwhich
>>>>> has lots of  "dynamic" content  tho it is also uses the CMS.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> So  having  a  sign up sheet or a
>>>>>> locate the closest  OOo support center. I  can't make that  with
>>>>> Subversion.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It isn't the  point of the  main website to provide signup sheets.  That's
>>>>> something
>>>>> a link to a wiki page can provide.  Finding the  closest  OOo support

>> center
>>>>> is
>>>>> something a  CGI script can do that has  access to read-only data on
 
> disk.
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Well I have ran main  websites  for  projects for while, and I have missed
>>>> this  functionality many  times. We also were very frustrated with  
>> Collbanet
>>>> and other structures  asking for true dynamic  platform.
>>> 
>>> So far the only person I see expressing frustration  over the situation is 
>> you.
>>> If there ever comes a time that a sufficient  number of OOo committers can 
>>> demonstrate
>>> some ability to  maintain and operate a dynamic website that isn't riddled 
>> with
>>> chronic  security flaws, infra will be more than happy to setup a 
>> jail/virtual os
>>> for you to use as you see fit.  In the meantime I suggest you learn to make 
> 
>>> proper
>>> use of the CMS.
>> 
>> Joe, thanks for setting the bar.  It might be high, but I agree that if we 
>> (AOOo)
>> decides that we need to have a  dynamic website as some type of support hub 
>> that
>> we have a big task that  requires careful design and implementation.
> 
> ... and periodic software maintenance.

Yes, time to upgrade my Tomcat servers at work. Thanks for the reminder :-)

> 
>> If we had a webapps that sits  on Tomcat would that help lower the bar, if only 
>> slightly?
> 
> No, that has nothing to do with it.  Either the devs know how to write web-safe 
> apps
> or they don't.  apache.org sites carry a big bullseye on them from a script 
> kiddie's
> standpoint, and the last time we were rooted the exploit vector was an XSS vuln 
> in jira.

Gotcha. Whatever Web Interface needs to be narrow, well-defined, bullet proof and well tested
with a committed team behind it.

So, we at AOOo would have to prove we have the community and procedures in place in order
to get to this point.

Whatever we might do starts on a private site, or in an approved Apache jail. And if so the
choices are here, http://www.apache.org/dev/services.html#virtual-servers, correct?

Thanks,
Dave


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