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From build...@apache.org
Subject svn commit: r797852 [3/13] - in /websites/staging/ooo-site/trunk/content: about/ about/__modules/ native-lang/ native-lang/conference/ native-lang/conference/img/ native-lang/conference/instructions/ native-lang/conference/instructions/img/ native-lang...
Date Tue, 01 Nov 2011 15:22:53 GMT
Added: websites/staging/ooo-site/trunk/content/native-lang/conference/logs/05-Mar-2005-INREACH.html
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+<h1>IRC Conference log</h1>
+<h2>
+   INREACH, building an active community<br />
+   by Daniel Carrera<br />
+   <a href="../slides/05-Mar-2005-INREACH.pdf">Download slides</a>
+</h2>
+
+<!--  ====================  -->
+<!--       LOG STARTS       -->
+<!--  ====================  -->
+
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Ok, I guess we can start.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  We'll keep this pretty informal, and see how it goes.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  This is our first talk, so we're experimenting.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Title:  INREACH, Building an Active Community
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  The talk is short, only about 10min or so.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  After the 10min we can Q's and A's and then "just chat".
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  So, let's go to Slide #2
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Slide #2:  What is INREACH ?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  INREACH is a cute term.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  We've heard the term "outreach"
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  everyone talks about "outreach"
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  "outreach" means reaching people *outside* the community.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  "inreach" means reaching people *inside* the community.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  I am dividing INREACH in two main steps.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  First, Getting an inactive member to become active.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  When I say "inactive member" I'm talking about people subscribed to lists, forums, etc
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  but who are not currently working on any project.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  And second, to "nurture" an active member to become self driven.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Soon you'll learn why I chose the word "nurture".
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  An "active member" is everyone who is contributing.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  A "self driven" member are those are not just contributing,
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  but go out looking for things to do,
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  and do them
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  they are the ones that come up with an idea, and then do the work.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  I'm sure you've met people like that  :-)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  The ideal is for members to become self-driven.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  So let's move on to the next slide.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  hello :D
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  Andrea Raimondi here
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  hi Daniel
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Slide #3: Crossing the bridge
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  The first step of this process is encouraging an inactive volunteer to become active.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  this step feels like crossing a bridge.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Or like climbing a wall.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Think back to the first time you started with open source.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  It was like a barrier.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  You had to take a step.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  It's not an easy thing, to volunteer for a task.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Well, the first thing we need to do is *Inform* people of what needs to be done.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  This is a pretty obvious step, but you'd be surprised how often people forget.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  We need to keep people informed about what projects are available
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  what volunteers we need, etc.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Next, we need to *reach* volunteers.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  what do I mean by this?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  what I mean is that you actually go to where the volunteer is,
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  talk to the volunteer directly.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  make a specific suggestion.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Last week I talked to Alexandro.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  I said, "Alexandro, I want to start some IRC conferences"
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  "would you like to give a talk?"
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Alexandro said "sure".
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  That's what I mean by "reach".
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  And the last step is "enthuse"
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  Daniel, the biggest problem I see with getting involved with open-source projects is that many people live the uncertainity about their working position
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  DeerBear: Remind me to ask you about that as soon as I finish (I won't be long)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  ok :D
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  sorry
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  :-)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  oh, no worries!
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  If I had a quick answer for that, I'd have given it to you :-)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  now, "enthuse"
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Tell the volunteer why this project is exciting,
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  why it's interesting.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  If it's not interesting, tell them why its important.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  We are dealing with volunteers.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  People work on things that they find interesting.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Or where they feel their work is valued.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  so that's important.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  next slide.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Slide #4:  Nurturing:  Skills / Direction
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Now we are on the next stage.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  You have a volunteer
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  someone just came to you and said "I want to help".
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  What do you do?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Now comes the process of "nurturing" the volunteer into becoming self-driven.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  This isn't like climbing a wall, or crossing a bridge.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  this is a process, and it takes time.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  The first thing we need to be aware of, is what happens to the skill level and how you should respond.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  When the volunteer first comes in, they are totally new to the project.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  they don't know how things work, or where to begin.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Suppose you just joined a new project.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  You're feeling lost.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  There is nothing more frustrating, than having the group say "just do whatever".
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  You want something more specific.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  people who just joined a project usually need and want more guidance.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  take them by the hand more.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  now, fast forward into the future.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  you've been on this project for 18 months.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  you know how everything works.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  you know hwo to do things, and you're good at it.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  There is nothing more frustrating, than having the lead trying to run everything.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  this is not the time for "micro-management".
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  therefore,
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  there isn't a single ammount of direction you should give.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  you have to make the direction correspond to how much the volunteer needs, and wants.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Next slide (last)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Slide #5: Nurturing: Motivation / Support
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  While the volunteer skills are improving, there is another process going on.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  And that's how the volunteer feels about the project.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  When a person joins the project, they are eager to work.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  But inevitably, they hit Murphy's law.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Murphy says:  Nothing is ever as easy as you expect.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  "Everthing takes longer than you thought"
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  This is inevitable.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  But when it happens,the volunteer gets discouraged.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  At this point, we have to be there for the new volunteer.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Help the volunteer see the progress that's been made.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Help the volunteer see the contributions, and that they are appreciated.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  So, it is during this "down" period that you have to focus on being encouraging.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  The good news is, this period doesn't last forever.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  At one point the volunteer will get through, if they stick with it.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  when they gain enough skill, they will start to see their contributions making a difference.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  and then their motivation will come back up.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  If they make it to the end,
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  you will have a volunteer,
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  that is both high in skill, and high in motivation.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  And *that* is going to be a "self-driven" volunteer.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  <the end>
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  :-)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  That wasn't too long....  :-)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  nope
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Okay, let's chat.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  sorry for the earlier interruption
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  DeerBear: no worries!
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  I just felt pushed to speak
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  because that's how I feel about open source projects
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  DeerBear: that's good. So let's speak
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  Q: How you think we can have a comprenhensive ToDo. Most users want a human approach as opposed to a document. Also the volunteers can vary on their skillset, so we need some member that can evaluate his skills and draw the best path.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#20d; font-weight:900'>AgnesB</span>]
+  DanielC,good job :-D
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  JZA: A ToDo is part of what I called "Inform". And like you said, it's not enough.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#381; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>]
+  Thanks DanielC, that was very nice and informative
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  JZA: The "human approach" is curical. That's the "reach" prt.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  AietKolkhi:  :-D
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  AietKolkhi: Glad you liked it.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  DanielC: is there any proposal of a mechanism that we can improve this process in OOo?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  JZA: A mechanism would be hard to come up with.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  ok, I'm going to explain what I feel on my side, maybe it's just me, maybe it's not
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  It's hard to mechanize a "human approach"
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  DeerBear: Go ahead, please.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  you can't, imho, mechanize a human appoach
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  ok, I'm turning 28 in few months
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  I don't have a stable job setting me economically independent
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  this poses me with a question: contribute to an OpenSource project or try and find a job for me?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  the answer is obvious, imho
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#381; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>]
+  DanielC: Would it be better if there was someone at Natie-Lang that after the leads welcome a new project, he or she should work with the new peoject lead to help him/her on all the basic steps that involves glossary creation, website development, amiling list setup, getting locale and other onformation etc?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  AietKolkhi: That sounds like a good idea.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  AietKolkhi: Ilike it.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  DeerBear: Yes, I understand your point.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  DeerBear: Sadly, I'm not sure we can do much about it ;(
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  AietKolkhi: I don't think you need a formal system though.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  I'm not obviously implying that Sun should hire me :D
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  DeerBear: I think that this only represent a benefit if there is a lot of people doing business with OOo and you can get a job as a OOo developer, or a solution integrator based on OOo
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie_</span>]
+  AieKolkhi : we are available for that, just ask 
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  AietKolkhi: This is something that can be done by anyone. I have been doing it long before I had any official role at OOo.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  DeerBear:  this is what is happening with Linux right now
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie_</span>]
+  and we will help the better we can :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  but I'm trying to say that if I could gain exposure, for example, for some of my works(a link? a page? tech help?whatever?)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#381; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>]
+  sopehie_: thanks :-)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie_</span>]
+  DeerBear : helping will give you visibility and you will be known trhough a community
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  Q: Pointing to OOo, is there a better way to contribute in source cast. Since the app allows to few interactivity, away from posting files as issues. (no news reporting, no collaborative documentation (unless is easier to access the cvs).)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  AietKolkhi: Keep me posted, I want to follow up on this (dcarrera@openoffice.org)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  sophie_, that's all good in theory
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie_</span>]
+  your knowing will be exposed and will serve or diserve yourself ;)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  but in practice...
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie_</span>]
+  not only in theory, it often happen that devs for example find work,
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  an extreme example: say that you have to do an OOo personalization
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  DeerBear: How about the contributors page ?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#2a7; font-weight:900'>cdriga</span>]
+  DeerBear: keep also a Blog where you link to all you did in the community too ;-)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie_</span>]
+  because company can see there work
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#2a7; font-weight:900'>willysr</span>]
+  sorry to interupt, but i must leave this chat and do my final project reports. Thanks for the good presentation, Daniel.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#2a7; font-weight:900'>willysr</span>]
+  good bye all
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  would you give it to a new entry or to Daniel Carrera? :D
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  willysr: thank you for comming!
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie_</span>]
+  DanielC : there is a contributor page on OOo site
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  cdriga: that was a good idea.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  yes, sure, sophie_, but that happens after *years*
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  I don't have "years"
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#381; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>]
+  DanielC: thanks. I will. I recently submitted a new level1 proposal a Georgian native-lang project and also have seen other people proposing new languages on Native-Lang mailing list, but the most of them seem to be having little experience in OOo projects and maybe are too shy to ask :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  I'm old
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  sophie_: Yes, that's what I meant. My name is on it  :-)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  I mean, old to play :D
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie_</span>]
+  no, I have several example in FR community where people found work during the year 
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  AietKolkhi: In my experience, people are often shy to ask. :-)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#381; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>]
+  So if somone could just write to them directly, saying "HI, you will need to do theese stpes an I am here to help you woth theese" :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  AietKolkhi: Exactly!
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  I'm unsure if I'm hitting the target I mean
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  Here in Italy it's *very* difficult to find an IT job
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  but working abroad isn't easy too
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  On the spanish community we have some sub-communities that have been going their own way to integrate their solutions. For example a new OOo localization for Kiche (Mayan Language) was presented this week. The organization is based in Guatemala and the project is backed up by Rigoberta Menchu Foundation. However it has been hard to integrate in a solid project with the greater ES community.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie_</span>]
+  DeerBear : do you make confs ? do you develop for the community, what I mean is that your name need to be visible on the net 
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  I'm a reasonably good programmer(there's loads of better developers than me) and I usually release free software, mainly for developers
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  99% of the time with sources
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie_</span>]
+  JZA : what was has, could you give more details please 
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  DeerBear: What do you do in the Italian NL ?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  NL = Native Language?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  yes  :-)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie_</span>]
+  DeerBear : where can people see what you have done ? the fact is to be able to see you "at work" :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  I mostly develop soft in English
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  not Italian
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie_</span>]
+  JZA : sorry, what was hard ?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  DeerBear: But in the Italian NL, what's your contribution ?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  sophie_: getting people to use the CVS
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  CVS can be intimidating.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Even for otherwise computer-savvy people.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  My only actual contribution to OOo is using it everyday and spreading the voice about it
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  sophie_:  a lot of jewels of information are lost on the hordes of mailing lists  
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#a21; font-weight:900'>diane</span>]
+  I think CVS could be made less intimidating if we were to present it differently.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie_</span>]
+  JZA : could we help ? can we do some mentoring, or is it really the technology that is not accepted ?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  I don't contribute in NL because I feel that OOo is just overwhelming and am unsure what I could do
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  DeerBear: If you contribute something to a project that you can "show" to people, you can give an IRC talk to show it.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#a21; font-weight:900'>diane</span>]
+  CVS is full of technical terms that don't mean much until you understand what they are.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  like what?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  DeerBear: That'll also put your name on the conf website.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  DeerBear: Good question.  :-)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  what's not in OOo that I can do and is not being actually done by anyone else?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  sophie_: in SourceCast topic is the technology, but the human resources is usually a great barrier, for example the ES community has picked up really good lately, but I know that many people on the community could do much more if they didn't require so much tech knowledge to publish content
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#a21; font-weight:900'>diane</span>]
+  CVS and SSH require few simple steps, but we pump MUCH background info at folks, which may be more intimidating than it needs to be.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  DeerBear: code-wise you can contribute plugins, or you can write documentation for example.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  diane: Yes, presentation makes a big difference.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  CVS and ssh are fairly easy to use once you grasp the basic concepts
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  DeerBear: Well... the same thing can be said about Quantum Field Theory.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie_</span>]
+  Diane : ++1 I completly agree with you
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#a21; font-weight:900'>diane</span>]
+  DeerBear: I think so too.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  sophie_: on the Mayan language project the hardest part is finding the information in OOo page. Sometimes we know is there, we just don't have an easy way to find it.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#381; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>]
+  Just a short note on the subject we discussed above: The main issue when starting a new natlang project is the lack of having a local glossary. OOo already did a very good job in producing a glossary of terms used in OOo. Another nice step would be to create an online tool that would enable the new language projects to invite language and other IT experts to participate in the glossary localization, allowing the participants to merely register 
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Most things can be "easy once you learn them". But if the learning is hard, you're still in a bad position.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#381; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>]
+  ...log in to the system ad submit the suggested terms and comment on other suggestions :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  admittedly, the latter involves a bit more "background" knowledge than the former
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#381; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>]
+  sorry for the long text
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie_</span>]
+  AietKolkhi : this is about l10n, not native langu project
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#a21; font-weight:900'>diane</span>]
+  DanielC: I don't think the learning needs to be hard. Its a few simple steps. We need to simplify the learning process.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#381; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>]
+  I programmed a module like this for Georgian natlang project and I know someone has done similar it for other nativelang project
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  AietKolkhi: Take a look at this project:  http://irma.linspire.com/
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#a21; font-weight:900'>diane</span>]
+  Maybe putting the process into more simple terms, less tech jargon, would help.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#a21; font-weight:900'>diane</span>]
+  When you cannot define a word, it's hard to make sense of the sentence.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#381; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>]
+  DanielC: allright
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie_</span>]
+  JZA : in that case, just ask directly to people like me, Charles or the one you choose, we never refuse to help people direclty and we understand that can be difficult,
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  diane: maybe you're right.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#a21; font-weight:900'>diane</span>]
+  I know I am. I have taught a tech how to use an oscilloscope for the first time during a phone conversaion.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  diane: I didn't mean to refer to CVS specifically. I was refuting the general argument that "it's easy once you learn it". The "once you learn it" part can be a barrier.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#a21; font-weight:900'>diane</span>]
+  They told me it could not be done.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#381; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>]
+  sophie_: yes, you are right. but I guess the first step in nativelang prject is l10n and thats where everybody seems to be having problems
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie_</span>]
+  we are available to every body that is needing help, may be we don't tell us enough, or speak louder enough :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  uhm... I could write a paper on how CVS works and what SSH is, I used to write articles for magazines
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#a21; font-weight:900'>diane</span>]
+  Oscilloscopes are hard. But I did it, and we got the measurement we needed from the customer to move the work fwd.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  we could do them in OOo native format
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  diane: I am hesitant to say that any given tool is easy if you just teach it right.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  diane: I don't mean anything bad about CVS.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#a21; font-weight:900'>diane</span>]
+  DanielC: I am talking about simplifying the learning process...
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  DanielC: How does OOo measure against the open source the mantra 'release early, release often'? 
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  sophie_: I will remember that the next time I meet the guys from the Mayan Project
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  Daniel, if I interpret correctly what diane's saying, I'd say that speaking of a box with two locks is farily easier than speaking of two primary numbers combined in mathematically unreversable function
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie_</span>]
+  AietKolkhi : ok, so how can we solve this ? I feel that a glossary belong to a language community, how could we share more in term of experience ?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  DeerBear, AietKolkhi, diane: How about an "IRC conf" to show people how to go use CVS ?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#a21; font-weight:900'>diane</span>]
+  I think maybe we have too much info on CVS and SSH available. :) Maybe that is part of what makes it inundating at first glance.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  DeerBear, AietKolkhi, diane: Include a trouble shooting section. Help people get setup.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  DanielC: I think that would be better because is a practical knowledge
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  diane: I agree with you 100%.  CVS is definitely not half has hard as OOo makes it look.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#381; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>]
+  danielC I think that would be nice and it's not really hard to cope with cvs
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  sophie_: from a developer point of view we lack a lot of documentation of the actual development of OOo
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#a21; font-weight:900'>diane</span>]
+  DanielC: I'm sorry to say this, but you spouting about it's difficulty is influential upon the community too.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  oops, didnt mean to be sophie_ :D
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  Is there a way we can also enhance developers to the community?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie_</span>]
+  JZA : no, the doc don't lack but you don't know where to find it ;)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  how about an "OpenOffice Contributor Central" application that new volunteers can use to perform basic tasks to help contributing?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#2a7; font-weight:900'>cdriga</span>]
+  DanielC: How about a visual tutorial like a slideshow.... created for the most common CVS programs instead a full text page ? Confs are good...but such tutorials with screenshots once online may help better
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  diane: Do you like the IRC hands-on session I just suggested?  Would you be willing to participate?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  sophie_: well I know that everyone poiint to the development guide... is HUGE and many developers get frustrated because is beyond their skillset
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  such as connecting to CVS, submittng some material and so on?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie_</span>]
+  cdriga : this is what Guy Capra does for my first steps on cvs and ssh : this is a great idea :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  diane: If you, DeerBear and AietKolkhi are all there, you can probably get pretty much anyone started.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  For example X guy likes python, he wants to write a module, but regardless of the technical restrictions of python in OOo there are only 3 documents regarding to python in the whole OOo site.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  cdriga: That's a good thought.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  and 1 is the same, just translated 
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#381; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>]
+  I liked Fedora CVS tutorial. It was done for windows platforms using tortiseCVs, but the same can be done for open platforms
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  cdriga: How about having those made, and *then* a conf. For trouble-shooting purposes ?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie_</span>]
+  JZA : the dev guide is not the only dev documentation you found on the site, do you ever look to the dev tab on the top of the page ?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#2a7; font-weight:900'>cdriga</span>]
+  DanielC: that's even better
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  JZA: another thing could be letting people write the bulk code and then let some more experienced contributor to actually integrate it in OOo
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  sophie_: yeah I did, I translate the whole page actually to the ES project
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie_</span>]
+  JZA : do you have a dev guru in you native-lang project ?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#a21; font-weight:900'>diane</span>]
+  cdriga: a visual tutorial might be an excellent idea. I have read that most people learn visually.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  I've experience making video
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  videos
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  diane, cdriga: If we just get *clear* and *accurate* instructions, that alone would be a major improvement.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  video-tutorials
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#381; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>]
+  DanielC: Regarding the URL. I took a look and it seems like a linux distribution that has created an online l10n environment. But I guess onlin env should only be used for glossary collaboration, not for the actual trasnaltion?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  sophie_: I have developers who want to contribute but get lost in the page sometimes. For me this was  a great experience: http://development.openoffice.org/digest/cvs48c.html
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  DeerBear: Video tutorials are always great?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  when I made one for a Delphi-related technology, someone said it was awsome
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  AietKolkhi: It's a Linspire tool for translating .po files.  Now that you mentioned it, it just dawned on me that glossaries aren't .po files... Oh well.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  but that was one opinion :D
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#381; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>]
+  DeerBear I am not sure if we need to go that far to offer video tutorials, but graphical maybe even flash-interactive presentation would certainly do good
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  DanielC: the development digest was also good because it gives you a snapshot of what was going on on the OOo source-tree
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  well, video tutorials can be made in flash
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie_</span>]
+  JZA : why don't you open a list dedicated to developers on your project, you can share experience, put up you documentation and help,
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  DeerBear: I publish some video tutorials in the past.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  JZA: I thought it was a great idea. It was a bit overwhelming, but that could be fixed with a change in presentation.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#2a7; font-weight:900'>cdriga</span>]
+  diane, DanielC, sophie_: Also, after the first steps using the programs indicated in the current tutorials on the site, most people experiment and find their own favourite program for CVS. For me it is IBM's Eclipse which does a bunch of other tasks, but with it CVS is very easy. Asking people on lists what CVS programs they use we can get a better list of programs to suggest and make tutorials for the major ones.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#381; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>]
+  DanielC: yes there are tools for online PO translation, but best isto use l10n soft, because they support automatic translation with Translation Memory (but then, we need a glossary translatin to have a TM :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#a21; font-weight:900'>diane</span>]
+  DanielC: yes clear and accurate instructions are important. That's huge.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie_</span>]
+  see here what we have done : a list + some pages and IZ commitments only in french http://fr.openoffice.org/Laboratory/indexlabo.html
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  what videos does OOo already have?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie_</span>]
+  this help a lot of people to contribute and understand the dev process
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  DeerBear: JZA has worked on some videos for OOo.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Rescue: Nice to meet you, I'm Daniel Carrera  :-)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie_</span>]
+  it helps also for l10n localization, I have translated some Pavel's blog parts which are of great help
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  sophie_: this is a great page, we want to activate one like that, after the business page is fully operational
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  hi Charles
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie_</span>]
+  cdriga : I'm using wincvs most of the time 
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#381; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>]
+  sophie_: the url looks nice, though I am not fluent in French. How do you manage to do the PR in France so that OOo can be used in NGOs and schools or colleges?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#2a7; font-weight:900'>cdriga</span>]
+  southerncross_: !
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  hola Alexandro!
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  hello everybody!
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#a21; font-weight:900'>diane</span>]
+  cdriga: that is a good idea. I'm still too new to know there are other CVS applications out there, besides what is shown on OOo. ;)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  Alexandro, did you get my message?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  TortoiseCVS is a very good one
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  AietKolkhi: I tried to pull that one in Mexico but is incredibly bureaucratic
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  if you work in Windows
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  southerncross_: yes I did, I post some announcements on the com@native-lang this week
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie_</span>]
+  AietKolkhi : by going to events, making a lot of conf, using private contacts and so on (a lot of energy but we are payed back ;)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  DeerBear: Cerverza (beer) is a good one in KDE
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#381; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>]
+  JZA: I am trying to persuade Georgian Ministry of Education too, but they have not decided yet :) 
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  :JZA: thanks, I was also referring to the other parts
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  Hello Aiet
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  Yo hablo un poquito de espanol :D
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#381; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>]
+  Hello southerncross
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  no mucho, verdad :D
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  I wonder who is DeerBear ?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  the unknown
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  :D
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  LOL
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  Microsoft's spy in OOo :D
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#a21; font-weight:900'>diane</span>]
+  I'm using linux and use just what is there, whatever that is, on RH9. Open a terminal and go.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  I guessed I missed Daniel's presentation?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie_</span>]
+  JZA : the most important is to have dev to drive the list and help people when they need, this is why I asked if you have dev gurus in you community wanted to do mentoring 
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  DeerBear: it doesn't matter much these days, being part of MS...
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#381; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>]
+  southerncross: you did :) and it was a good one
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  LOL
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  right
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  ok
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  anyway
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  Andrea Raimondi from Italy
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  sophie_: right now I cant remember a name of a developer guru, most people driving the list are consultants and are very focused on OOo migrations
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  oh, did we meet in Berlin?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  uhm... since I don't remember to have ever been in Berlin, I guess not
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#2a7; font-weight:900'>cdriga</span>]
+  diane: I use linux since RH9 too... and using a JRE from Sun I could run Eclipse. But this works for windows too.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  ah, okay
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  and if I was there and don't remember that would be scary
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  :D
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  LOL
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie_</span>]
+  JZA : If they are consultant, they are able to do develpments on OOo and are able to give back to your community in helping new developers to learn ;)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  JZA: sorry I mean implementators (consultants are usually implementators more than programmers/developers)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#a21; font-weight:900'>diane</span>]
+  cdriga: Neat. I will have to google about Eclipse to learn more about it!
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#2a7; font-weight:900'>sciurius</span>]
+  thank you, daniel!
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  sophie_:  they write a lot of analisys and TCO studies and things like that, and yes they do contribute
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  in case I thank you Daniel!
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  :-)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  thanks!
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  to everybody here: AietKolkhi is the future Georgian Native-Lang lead
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  I think that writing the bulk code and then have someone integrate it into the main works of OOo would be a fairly straightforward method to gain new developers without the hassle of having to learn the complexities behind the integration itself
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie_</span>]
+  JZA : ha, ok I understand
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  DeerBear: there's an Italian guy wondering why there's no 1.1.4 in Italian  on the marketing list
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  what's 1.1.4?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  DeerBear: the version of OpenOffice.org 1.x
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  DanielC: I thought I would not been able to make it here, but i'm like the US cavalry....
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  :-)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  southerncross_ :-)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  I have 1.1.3
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  southerncross_ : I think we should alternate times, so more people can make it over-all.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  southerncross_: Where are you located?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  DanielC: yes, you're right
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  Paris GMT+1
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  southerncross_ : What time would have been better for you?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  DanielC: I wanna move back to new york city, getting bored of Bucharest
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  today, i'm pretty sure no Oriental members would have been able to be here now
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie__</span>]
+  sorry I've been disconnected
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  wb sophie_
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  southerncross_ : We were supposed to have a couple of orientals here.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  sophie_ I wanted to ask you about your gull, a lot of people like it a lot
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  southerncross_ : It's very late in Japan, and early in Australia.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie__</span>]
+  JZA : EIS and cws is really more easy to handle now
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  southerncross_ : I meant, US West coast... he he
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie__</span>]
+  JZA : yes, we love it too :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  well, I'm sure people like Hirano_San and Jeongkyu Kim of Korea would have been interested to be here
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#2a7; font-weight:900'>flop-flip</span>]
+  maybe there is irc log for this session?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  DanielC: did you know that the Chinese lead lives in Vancouver?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  southerncross_ : What do you mean?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  sophie_ we have a spanish version of Otto, http://www.kfacts.com/oooart/displayimage.php?album=3&pos=3
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  flop-flip: I think yes
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  sophie_ it would be good to get it also on OOoArt
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  sophie_: hi Sophie
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  sophie_: who is AgnesB
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  ?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#333; font-weight:900'>Rescue</span>]
+  On my day job, the best times for the world to meet are usually 0700 GMT, 1300 GMT and 2100 GMT
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  southerncross_ :  AgnesB is a volunteer at OOoAuthors.org
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  southerncross_: She's a very good reviewer.  :-)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  DanielC: todays was perfect time, but I had something else to do
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie__</span>]
+  Agnes B in France is a famous stylist ;)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  LOL that's why I asked
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  southerncross_ : Ok, good to know.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#20d; font-weight:900'>AgnesB</span>]
+  sophie_: Hi, glad to meet you here 
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  hello AgnesB
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  cdriga sophie_: what you think about getting the french otto to the OOoArt page?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie__</span>]
+  JZA : nice one :) I'm very late to put material on art project, sorry Cristian :(
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  JZA cdriga sophie__ : +1
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#20d; font-weight:900'>AgnesB</span>]
+  Hello Southerncross
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie__</span>]
+  Agnes, I'm please to meet you here too :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  AngesB: I never saw you on the French lists
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#418; font-weight:900'>JZA</span>]
+  I also got the SVG so people can do changes and improve it
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  JZA: thanks
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#2a7; font-weight:900'>cdriga</span>]
+  JZA: +1, fine by me. I can create a "OOo Mascots" gallery and index there all of them
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie__</span>]
+  This is not the French Otto, this one is call SOOophie by the French community ;)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  sophie__:  he he  :-)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#a21; font-weight:900'>diane</span>]
+  SOOophie, that's cute!
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#20d; font-weight:900'>AgnesB</span>]
+  southerncross_, I'm Daniel's friend, and so I'm on an English list ;-)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  sophie__ cdriga: Yes, a set of mascots would be nice. Otto and SOOophie can be there.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  where can I find a reference to plug-in development?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie__</span>]
+  Diane : This is the vote, I'm to shy normally to allow it, but you know how is a community ;)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#381; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>]
+  Sorry for the off-topic, but I have a small Q regarding the PR of NativeLang project :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#381; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>]
+  Does anyone have an experience in persuading schools, NGOs. governments and companies to use OOo? :-)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  AietKolkhi: I know someone who does.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#a21; font-weight:900'>diane</span>]
+  sophie__: I understand shy very much. I also understand how well you are respected in the community. ;)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  AietKolki: FR project has a lot
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#20d; font-weight:900'>AgnesB</span>]
+  southerncross_: so I guess you live in France?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#381; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>]
+  southerncross: thanks.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  AietKolkhi:  Ian Lynch <ian.lynch@zmsl.com>
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  AietKolki: but many others have: Turkish, Spanish, Russian, Japanese, etc...
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#2a7; font-weight:900'>cdriga</span>]
+  All: I'll have to leave now. DanielC: thanks for the presentation. This ig good. Keep up the good work. Also, please save the log of this meeting at the end and post it somewhere so that we can reffer to it later on ;-)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  and Ian Lynch, of course for the education
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  AietKolkhi:  Ian is the "OOo for schools" lead.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#381; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>]
+  thanks. great, I guess I just need to get in touch  with them
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  cdriga: Good idea!
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  gee... ok, going
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#732; font-weight:900'>DeerBear</span>]
+  buh bye...
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#381; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>]
+  DanielC May I ask who Ian is? :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  cdriga: thanks for comming!
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#572; font-weight:900'>sophie__</span>]
+  AietKolkhi : you can't persuade anybody imho, but demonstrating, doing a lot of talk, studying how and where they will save money and so on will help a lot
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  AietKolkhi: Ian Lynch is the head of the "OpenOffice.org for schools" project. He regularly talks to schools and the UK administration about OOo.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#76c; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>]
+  sorry I was disconnected
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#381; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>]
+  Well saving money is not directly an option in Georgia, as Microsoft is "donating" its platforms and aplications to Georgian schools for free :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  AietKolkhi: He focuses entirely on exactly what you just said.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#381; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>]
+  DanielC: thank you
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#23a; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  np
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#2a7; font-weight:900'>cdriga</span>]
+  See you later....
+<br />
+
+  </div>
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