incubator-ooo-commits mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From w...@apache.org
Subject svn commit: r1196049 [6/13] - in /incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content: about/ about/__modules/ native-lang/ native-lang/conference/ native-lang/conference/img/ native-lang/conference/instructions/ native-lang/conference/instructions/img/ native-lang/c...
Date Tue, 01 Nov 2011 15:21:53 GMT
Added: incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/native-lang/conference/logs/14-May-2005-Non-Profit.html
URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/native-lang/conference/logs/14-May-2005-Non-Profit.html?rev=1196049&view=auto
==============================================================================
--- incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/native-lang/conference/logs/14-May-2005-Non-Profit.html (added)
+++ incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/native-lang/conference/logs/14-May-2005-Non-Profit.html Tue Nov  1 15:21:49 2011
@@ -0,0 +1,1219 @@
+<html>
+<head>
+  <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="style.css" />
+  <title>IRC Conference log</title>
+  <style type="text/css">
+    #tabs, #apphead, #leftcol, #projecttools,
+    .docs, #toc, .docs, .courtesylinks { display: none }
+  </style>
+</head>
+<body>
+
+<h1>IRC Conference log</h1>
+<h2>
+   Non Profit Organization (NPO) to Support OpenSource Developers<br />
+   by Kazunari Hirano<br />
+   <a href="../slides/14-May-2005-Non-Profit.sxi">Download slides</a>
+</h2>
+
+<!--  ====================  -->
+<!--       LOG STARTS       -->
+<!--  ====================  -->
+
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  I will start in 5 min., is it ok for you all?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  Yes, certainly
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  If you want to have Slides of my presentation, please go to get it there:
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  My .sxi is here: http://native-lang.openoffice.org/conference/
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  let me start :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Hi all,
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Thanks for coming. :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  And very sorry for being late to upload my presentation.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  My .sxi is here: http://native-lang.openoffice.org/conference/
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  I have been travelling around Japan to meet people
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  whom I would like to ask to join, and to discuss with them about vision of NPO, OpenSourcers (tentative name) and our dreams.  
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Becase I think it is very important that NPO founders trust each other.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  I have just been back from Tokyo.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  OK, let me start my presentation.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Slide 1:
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  My talk will be on Non Profit Organization (NPO) to Support OpenSource Developers
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Slide 2:
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  My talk will be short.  I would like to have your advises and comments, more time for Q & A and discussion.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  After my presentation I have questions for you.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Please think about these questions while seeing, listening my presentation.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  My questions are:
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  What NPO law do you have in your country?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Are you planning to establish an NPO?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Do you know contributors, developers or translators  who need financial or material help?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  What do they need, What do they want?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Why are you working for OpenOffice.org the product and the community?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  What is your motivation?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Do you think that money can help OpenSource development? :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Here is the Agenda
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Speaker Introductions
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Japan
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  OpenOffice.org Ja Native Language Project
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Japan OpenOffice.org Users Group 
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  What we really need
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  What if we have money
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  NPO Law in Japan
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  NPO Activity
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  and Q & A
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Slide 3:
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  My name is Kazunari Hirano.  
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  When I introduce myself with my full name in Japanese, 
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  I say my family name first, and then my given name,
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  so I say, my name is Hirano Kazunari.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  We use Chinese Characters. 
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  We can't express well without using them.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Chinese Characters are ideogram. 
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  When we see it, we can imagine what it means. 
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  In my name you can see a Chinese Character "One," very easy one to understand :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  My name literally means, "Plain Field, One Success."
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Slide 4: Japan
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  I made this Japan language map based on information given by:
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=JP
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  I don't think it's a correct map 
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  because their information is old and often incorrect
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  but it's ok, one of the very interesting view on languages in Japan.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  I am a member of the OpenOffice.org Japanese Native Language Project,
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  I am a Japanese living in Japan.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  I am an OpenOffice.org blogger :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  http://openoffice.exblog.jp/
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  There you can see my face :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Japan is often called Japanese archipelago or Japanese islands.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Bigger islands are Hokkaido, Honshu, Shikoku and Kyushu.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  I live in "Ichinoseki" City, "Iwate" Prefecture, 
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  northern part of Japan Main Island, "Honshu."
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Slide 5:
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Japanese Native Language Project
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Ja NLP membership
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  http://ja.openoffice.org/servlets/ProjectMemberList
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  We have around 800 observers registered and around 20 developers registered.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  We form OpenOffice.org Japan Users Group, core of which is OpenOffice.org Japanese Native Language Project.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  For this group we have 15 managing staffs, 
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  core of which are OpenOffice.org Japanese Native Language Project members who have signed JCA and have commit rights.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  The Users Group has a users mailing list outside the OpenOffice.org Japanese Native Language Project to embrace as many users as possible,
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  which is openoffce@freeml.com
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  It has Near 3,000 subscribers
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Sure we have Project Mailing Lists:
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  We use discuss@ja.openoffice.org to discuss about management of the group, marketing, events, and general questions regarding OpenOffice.org
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  We use translate@ja.openoffice.org for translation works, translation collaboration with Sun Microsystems, OpenOffice.org translation bug reporting etc.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Slide 6:
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  OpenOffice.org Japan Users Group
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  It is just a group.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  We don't know who are members.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  It is not a legal entity.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  All activity is based on volunteers.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  We don't have accounting function.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  We can't receive money.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  When we need money or have a chance to receive money, 
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  we ask an individual, a staff member, to voluntarily open a bank account.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  The group often creates OpenOffice.org CDs and distributes free to people at events and conferences in Japan.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  When we organized the OpenOffice.org Conference Japan 2005,
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  a company wanted to contribute to us.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  A staff member asked a CD manufacturer to press hundreds of OpenOffice.org CDs and pay for them.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  And after the conference, the company donate the amount of money what he paid to his own account.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  This was heavy burden and risk for him.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Slide 7:
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  What we really need
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  We don't want money.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  We want People
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  We want Developers
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  We want Translators
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  We want Contributors
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  We want Motivated people
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  We want to have quality OpenOffice.org
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  We want to contribute to society
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  We want Communication
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  We want to Help people
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Now do we need Money?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Slide 8:
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  What if we have money
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  We don't work for money. :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  But what if we have money:
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  We can get more contributors, developers and translators.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Skilled developers are busy. :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  We can ask developers to share their time.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Tools are needed for development.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  We can provide them with equipments.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Developers need information and exchange of ideas.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  We can help them go to conferences.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  We can do a lot of activity you can imagine :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Marketing activitiy, Organizing activity....
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Slide 9:
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  NPO Law in Japan
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  It was enacted on Dec. 1, 1998 and revised on May 1, 2003.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  The revised law simplified the application and grant process.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Under the NPO law, Japanese government grants a volunteer group as a legal entity
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  What is benefits to become an NPO, a legal entity
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Can open a bank account as a group
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Can open an office as a group
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Can register its real property as a group
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Can perform other various legal action as a group
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Slide 10:
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  The NPO law provides Authorized NPO.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  National Tax Agency grants an Authorized NPO.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  If individuals and organizations donate to the Authorized NPO, they don't have to pay tax for the donation.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  The law provides expansion of tax breaks for donations.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  It facilitates individuals, companies and other organizations to danate to NPOs :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Slide 11:
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  NPO requirements
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  NPO must have certain purposes
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  such as promotions for welfare, social education, 
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  for local community, academic and scientific research, 
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  for environment, security, human rights, children, 
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  for information society, economic revitalization, 
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  for employment, consumer protection, etc.., 
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  which benefit general public
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  NPO is like a company
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  A company makes money for profit.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  NPO makes money but not for profit,
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  which means NPO members don't share profit. 
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Not more than 1/3 of board members get compensation.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  NPO must have at least 3 bord members and 1 auditor.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Slide 12:
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  NPO should have Business Plan:
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  They may be:
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  OpenSource Software Development
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  OpenSource Software Localization
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Translation
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Publication (e.g."OpenOffice.org Magazine" with CD)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Design Usable and Beautiful Computers
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Research
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  User support
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Consulting
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Events, Conferences, Campaign, Fundraising
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Slide 13:
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  We will find out good, skilled, honest contributors, 
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  developers and translators from OpenSouce communities and other fields.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  We will meet them and discuss what they want to do,
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  what they need and what we can do together
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  to develop OpenOffice.org and other OpenSource Software.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  We encourage them to work together and provide them with what they need by giving them resources, information, money, etc.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  We encourage them to join our activity and dispatch them to the conference by giving them transportation and accomodation.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Slide 14:
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  I would like to focus on Translation Works.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Translation is essential to Japanese OpenSource Communities.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  to provide developers with information
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  for good communication with world developers
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  to motivate developers to join development works
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  For example: TCM (Test Case Maintenance)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  When 1.9.79 test, Japanese Version TCM registered testers were 3, 
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  as TCM test cases was all in English.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Then TCM test cases have been translated in Japanese.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  1.9.95 Japanese Version testers increased to 11.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Japanese Translation facilitates Japanese contributors and developers to join OpenOffice.org activity.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Slide 15:
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  What would the NPO like to do in future?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  to help world OpenSource developers
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  to help communication and collaboration between various OpenSource communities and businesses
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  OpenOffice.org Aynu Localization
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  OpenOffice.org Klingon Localization
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Verious localization works
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#088; font-weight:900'>cloph</span>]
+  ??
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Host OpenOffice.org Conference in Japan
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  and to help all the projects you can imagine.. :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  correction: Various localization works
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  I would like to add some future projects to the slide.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Under the NPO law, NPO can establish a school.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  So the NPO would make a school to educate OpenSource developers and send them to the society.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  cloph: let us talk about Klingon later :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  :-)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  So the NPO would make a school to educate OpenSource developers and send them to the society.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  And the NPO can set up a research institute for OpenSource Software, attached to the school.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Slide 16:
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Thanks for your attention and Q & A :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  simple questions please :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#088; font-weight:900'>cloph</span>]
+  So what about klingon? Do you really meant the klingon from the enterprise-series?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  cloph: yes!
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#088; font-weight:900'>cloph</span>]
+  I really wonder who will (or better can) use an Office Suite in klingon... :-)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  cloph: so let us talk about it later, one reason is that it is fun!
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  that's all, and I can think of marketing purpose :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>gautehk</span>]
+  Thanks, khirano, this was both interesting and familiar because we already have a foundation/NPO that funds OOo work in Norway. Where will the Japanese NPO get money?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#088; font-weight:900'>cloph</span>]
+  ..But according to german wikipedia it is a registered language! And there even is a wikipedia in klingon :-) but enough about this... Sorry for disturbing/being off-topic :-)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  khirano: Is this the Q&A now?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  gautehk: the NPO do business and ask companies and local governments,  japanese government to donate.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>gautehk</span>]
+  khirano: Sounds very familiar (and sensible)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  the NPO publishes magazines and others, and sell them.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  the NPO collect membership fee, also.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  cloph: it's ok.  I want to discuss about it later :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>gautehk</span>]
+  khirano: who are members? Individuals or large-scale users (companies/organizations/government)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  gautehk: Both
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  they would be members.  they can join the NPO as individuals and organizations.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  And membership fees would vary
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  the NPO can decide the membership fee for individuals and organizations.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  khirano: Do the NPO members get an allowance for their work?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  the NPO can employ staffs, who would be paid, allowance.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  It could employ developers and documentation writers! :-)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  DanielC: right!
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  :-)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  I'd like that a lot. I think it would help OOo to have more developers, and in particular, some who aren't tied to any company.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Even if we don't hire people full time, if we just hire a couple of guys part time, that would be something.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Or we could work on commission.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Like, get someone to write SVG import.  :-)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  DanielC: thanks for good ideas
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Yeah, that might work well. Comission would work for a beginning NPO.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  khirano: Is your NPO setup already?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>gautehk</span>]
+  For comparison, here's briefly what we do: The Norwegian foundation employs part-time translators. It has no membership fee. Some of the board members represent large-scale users.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  NOT YET! 
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  ok
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#088; font-weight:900'>cloph</span>]
+  SVG-import already exists as a xslt-based solution (at least it was started)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  cloph: Yeah, but it needs work.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  gautehk: You have an NPO already?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>gautehk</span>]
+  DanielC: yes, for a year or so
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  cool.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Do you now other projects that do too?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  I think I heard that French NL has one.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  khirano: Don`t you think there will be conflicts of interest if there are developers who are employed and others who are not?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  jrahemipour: How so?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  jrahemipour: I am thinking about it too.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>gautehk</span>]
+  Volunteers do the fun stuff, paid employees do the boring work. (Basically :-)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  So we will meet developers and ask them whether they want to be supported or not.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  and the NPO will open all the information it has, whom it supports and others
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  Germany has such a NPO too... but we have problems to separate between "NPO interests" and "own business interests" of the members
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  jrahemipour:  the NPO will help their communication and understanding
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  Its not the problem of the members, more the critical voices you hear in the de-community
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  jrahemipour:  yes, it is.  we have to think about it.  but I think we can solve the question by communication and mutual understanding
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  Whats about the ja-community? How does they think about it?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Not all the people among ja-community think that the NPO is the best solution
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  khirano: Yes, thats right. Communication between community an NPO is very important. It`s very important to have strict rules how to handle with the earned money
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  The present ja-community can not handle money at all.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  khirano: Do they have alternatives? Or do they think, its not important to handle with money?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  But we know we have to have some measure to handle money and to further develop our works and community
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  jrahemipour: No, they don't have alternatives, I think.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  khirano: That`s true... we concentrate on marketing activities at the moment, I don`t think, we can manage it in the next years to employ people
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  I think they are OK with present situation to do the same as past.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  But I think we have to do more to keep the community survive and be active.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Actually it is difficult to keep motivation of developers and translators among ja-community.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  khirano: How did the qa-community increase in the last two years? Do you know, how many observers and developers you had 2 years before?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  jrahempour: I don't know exactly how many
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>gautehk</span>]
+  khirano: I can imagine motivation being difficult. OOo is a lot harder to work on than most other open source projects.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  but OpenOffice.org development so far is itself very interesting and we got many users.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  khirano: I guess it's an issue of making it easier for developers who are already interested to not be distracted by "work".
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  khirano: Kind of like what they did for Linus.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  DanielC:  it is true :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  hhmm... maybe this also leads into "who do we hire?"
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  The NPO would hire people who have been working for a while and have shown commitment.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  it is the most important question.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  But that wouldn't address problems like hiring someone to finish SVG import. That is, problems for which no current member can help.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  It's a difficult question. Discussion is good.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  We have to meet them and discuss.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  To meet them, we have to travel, we need money :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  :-)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  If you focus on local developers it might be easier.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Or... you can arrange for "potentials" to go to OOoCon.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Hhmm... I like that idea.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Pick a few people who are good contributors and sponsor them to go to OOoCon.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Then meet them there.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  sounds good.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Even if you don't "hire" them later, you still did something valuable with that money.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  You know what I mean.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  yes, definitely
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  :-)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  I only see the problem... "who decides it" and how to prevent, that the others not think to get a raw deal
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#008; font-weight:900'>Magi</span>]
+  I've heard that SVG is hard to implement? Possibly it can't be done with XSLT at all.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  jrahemipour: I guess that you need some sort of committee. So no one person can choose arbitrarily (or be /seen/ to choose arbitrarily).
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  jrahemipour: You have the OpenOffice.org non profit association in German, right?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  jrahemipour: But no matter what you do, someone will always be upset.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Magi: I hear that an "ok" filter is doable, but a "complete" filter is very hard.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Magi: But I don't know.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  khirano: Yes we have... and we have exact this kind of problems with it
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  jrahemipour: I would like to share knowledge and activity with yours
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  jrahemipour: How do you decide right now?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  DanielC: We don`t decide much at the moment. We focus on marketing activities. We pay for things, the members had to pay for theirselves before
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  jrahemipour: Ok. That's still a good way to spend the money. You don't *have* to hire people.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  (IMHO)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  We have a "board of directors" (Vorstand), who decides, how to spend the money... we are 3 persons
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  I see.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  DanielC: But its always the problem, not to be inequitable
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  jrahemipour: I don't envy your position. No matter what you do, someone will be unhappy.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  But we surely spend money for community members who are not members of the NPO
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  So all one can do is minimize the number of unhappy people.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  ok
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Perhaps it's safer to "sponsor" people so they spend less money themselves? Like taking them to OOoCon.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  But this is a problem too... we have laws, that we are not allowed to spend too much money for non-members
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  jrahemipour: Do you have a lot of complaints over how DE-NL spends money?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  DanielC: Yes, we had terrible discussions about it in the beginning of this year
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  :-(
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>gautehk</span>]
+  (unstable network ...)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  But it was at a time we did not spend much money at all. We were at the beginning of our activities... and it slowed down our motivation...
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  jrahemipour: May I ask what the money argument was about? Or do you prefer to not discuss it?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#880; font-weight:900'>hfischer</span>]
+  This is hot stuff.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  ok
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  let's not get into it then.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  DanielC: No, its ok! But I don`t know the arguments exactly. 
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  ok
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#880; font-weight:900'>hfischer</span>]
+  I for myself can't explain the discussions exactly.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#088; font-weight:900'>cloph</span>]
+  The main problem with this whole discussion was that it was not arguments that were discussed but personalities.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  cloph: Yes, that`s right
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  :(
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  But that's not a fundamental problem with NPO's. That can happen with any kind of decison.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  Its a problem to get active people for the work at a NPO... the others mistrusts them and think, they only have personal interests
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  oh
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Trust, it is important.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Yes.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#088; font-weight:900'>cloph</span>]
+  The only "money" related thing was that there was a sponsered weekend in a hotel (the owner of the hotel sponsored the stay, the members only had to pay for food/drinking). Members of the e.V. had to bay 5 € less. But this really was a very marginal point of the discussion.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#880; font-weight:900'>hfischer</span>]
+  For me was the foundation of the german NPO not really anchored at the online community. The right communication between a very active group and the online volunteers was missing. So I think. That is my personal opinion, I speak only for my self.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  hfischer: So they felt left out.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#880; font-weight:900'>hfischer</span>]
+  Yes, I think so.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Ok.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Well... we've learned something. That when you setup an NPO it's important to involve as much of the community as you can.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  And not just do it yourself.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#880; font-weight:900'>hfischer</span>]
+  DanielC: Yes.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  We didn´t do it ourself in germany. But not all community members noticed it
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  Its a difficult topic... involving the community is very important, but you have to make a decision sometime
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#880; font-weight:900'>hfischer</span>]
+  It is a arduous way to communicate special facts all over the net and through mailinglists. Some people want to get results very quick, but that is not even possible in a online community who could speak together realtime.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  hfischer: it's true.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>]
+  Hello DanielC, Khirano, Helga and  everybody. I am sorry I was not able to join earlier. The topic seemedvery  interesting, so I will have to see the logs I guess :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  We talked about the foundation for more than 2 Years...
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  AietKolkhi: Good to see you.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  jrahemipour: That seems like plenty of time...
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Of course, I don't know the details.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  jrahemipour:  you started a local foundation actually, it is a good progress.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  we start a NPO in Japan and would get some experience.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  Another point is, that the people who are not only working online, spent a lot of money for fairs and so on, so they saw many good reasons 
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  We can share our knowledge and many things.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  khirano: Yes, certainly. Feel free to ask, if you have questions!
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  jrahemipour: yes I will :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  I am happy to get some good ideas and experience here :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  khirano: Will you attend the next OOoCon?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  the NPO would start next month
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  I hope.  I am writing Business Plan of the NPO now:)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  khirano: Oh, good! Please don`t hesitate to contact us
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  I will make another presentation about the NPO's experience.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  That would be very interesting
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  OK, thanks all, I will go to bed now.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  May I see you all at the next OpenOffice.org Conference?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  khirano: Goodnight! And thanks for the interesting presentation
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  khirano: Good night!
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Are you coming? to France or Slovenia?
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Thank you for the talk!
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  you are welcome
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  DanielC:  I am helped by you :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  khirano: Yes, I will be there... 
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  my pleasure, all, thanks, good night.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>gautehk</span>]
+  khirano: Thanks for the talk. It's quite possible I'll come too.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  jrahemipour: Maybe I'll be there this year too. :-)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  I'd love to meet everyone.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  DanielC: That would be fine
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  gautehk: that's good!  I will see you face-to-face.  it will be nice.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#880; font-weight:900'>hfischer</span>]
+  khirano: Thank you for this presentation. It was very interesting for me.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  clap clap clap clap clap clap
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  :-)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#880; font-weight:900'>hfischer</span>]
+  clap clap clap clap clap clap
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  Thanks all, again, and I am looking forward to seeing you face-to-face, offline :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  yeah
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  I would like to hear your voices :)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  khirano: Ciao...
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  I would like to shake hands with you.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>]
+  good night, all
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#880; font-weight:900'>hfischer</span>]
+  Good Night.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  Bye all...
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  bye
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  thank you for comming
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  Nice "meeting" you.
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  :-)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  dito :-)
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>jrahemipour</span>]
+  "See" you next time...
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  yeah
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  bye bye
+<br />
+   [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>]
+  :)
+<br />

Propchange: incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/native-lang/conference/logs/14-May-2005-Non-Profit.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    svn:eol-style = native

Added: incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/native-lang/conference/logs/16-April-2005-Software-Patents.txt
URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/native-lang/conference/logs/16-April-2005-Software-Patents.txt?rev=1196049&view=auto
==============================================================================
--- incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/native-lang/conference/logs/16-April-2005-Software-Patents.txt (added)
+++ incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/native-lang/conference/logs/16-April-2005-Software-Patents.txt Tue Nov  1 15:21:49 2011
@@ -0,0 +1,288 @@
+14:29 <khirano> http://native-lang.openoffice.org/conference/
+14:29 <khirano> hi all, no slides provided by Simon? :)
+14:34 <IcoBgr> hi
+14:37 <AietKolkhi> hello everybody
+14:38 <khirano> AietKolkhi: hi :)
+14:38 <IcoBgr> hi
+14:42 <lgodard> Hi all
+14:42 <lgodard> Hi Khirano, sorry you just disconnected while i was answering
+14:43 <simonbr> Hi all
+14:43 <lgodard> Hi simon
+14:43 <felipe> afternoon simon
+14:45 <simonbr> If you want to look at the presentation already, it's here: http://www.xs4all.nl/~simonbr/software_patents.sxi
+14:46 <lgodard> simondr: thx
+14:48 <AietKolkhi> Hi Khirano.
+14:48 <AietKolkhi> Hi Simon
+14:50 <felipe> just mentioned this conference on #bxl-ffii, should have earlier
+14:50 <AietKolkhi> felipe: indeed :)
+14:50 <lgodard> clemen1:Welcome, not so hard ;)
+14:52 <felipe> we thought you were ditching us ;)
+14:53 <felipe> afternoon Jeroen 
+14:53 <Jeroen> afternoon :-)
+14:54 <lgodard> is Daniel coming ?
+14:55 <felipe> if I'd have seen the conf topic ealier I would have emailed
+14:59 <JZA> hi all
+14:59 <lgodard> Hi Jza
+14:59 <khirano> hi Alexandro
+15:00 <Caracremada> Hi all
+15:00 <simonbr> Hi all, what do you think, shall I start the talk or wait a bit
+15:01 <lgodard> perharps a call on #openoffice.org channel
+15:01 <lgodard> ?
+15:01 <artietee> subject is ok now?
+15:02 <simonbr> Laurent, could you do that?
+15:02 <felipe> considering the importance of the issue, I'd even say /wallop
+15:02 <lgodard> well ... hummm ... tadaa ......... i go 
+15:02 <simonbr> Felipe, what do you mean by that?
+15:03 <lgodard> simonbr: done
+15:03 <simonbr> Thanks Laurent
+15:04 <lgodard> simonbr: :)
+15:04 <felipe> simonbr: the /wallops command (operators only) sends the message to all on the network with "mode +w", i.e. those who want to receive just messages.
+15:04 <simonbr> aha
+15:05 <khirano> hi cloph, welcome!
+15:05 <cloph> Hi * :-)
+15:06 <khirano> hi oramirez, welcome!
+15:06 <simonbr> Did all of you already get the presentation, it's at http://www.xs4all.nl/~simonbr/software_patents.sxi
+15:07 <IcoBgr> I did
+15:07 <Caracremada> nope, I'll look now
+15:07 <lgodard> simonbr: you should repost the url of your slides for new commers
+15:07 <JZA> nope, thanks
+15:07 <lgodard> simonbr: oups, sorry
+15:07 <khirano> yes, i like banana ;)
+15:07 <lgodard> yes, a beautifull one
+15:08 <oramirez> khirano, hi.. thanks..
+15:08 <simonbr> It was the banana I had for lunch on the day the Council of Ministers passed the directive proposal as an A item
+15:10 <simonbr> (I will explain about that later on)
+15:10 <khirano> simonbr: sure :) looks sweet!
+15:10 <simonbr> Shall I start with the talk?
+15:11 <JZA> yes
+15:11 <JZA> kick it
+15:11 <Caracremada> go ahead
+15:11 <simonbr> OK. 
+15:11 <simonbr> Let's start with the introduction sheet.
+15:12 <simonbr> Welcome to my online presentation about software patents. As Daniel already said in his announcement, software patents are one of the greatest threats to free software.  
+15:12 <simonbr> The frontline of the fight agains software patentsis now in Europe. A European Directive is being prepared, which may give software patents a firm legal basis.
+15:13 <simonbr> In this presentation, I want to give an overview of what is happening in this area.
+15:13 <simonbr> It says "a short introduction", I hope it will not be too long :)
+15:14 <simonbr> The presentation is structured as follows. First, I'd like to go into patents in general. What are patents, and why do we have them?
+15:14 <simonbr> Then, what makes software so special that we are talking about "software patents"? Why did we not have software patents for a long time, and on the other hand, in what sense is software similar to inventions that can be patented?
+15:15 <simonbr> The US has known software patents for some time. How did it come to be this way?
+15:15 <simonbr> Next, the history of software patents in the European Union.
+15:16 <simonbr> I will be discussing in some detail the history of the European directive on "Patentability of Computer-implemented inventions" which may give software patents a firm legal basis in the EU.
+15:16 <simonbr> And finally: what is going to happen next, and what can we still do to attempt turning this threat around?
+15:17 <simonbr> For those who are just entering the room, get the presentation, it's at http://www.xs4all.nl/~simonbr/software_patents.sxi
+15:18 <kartoon> why it's in english
+15:18 <simonbr> So far, am I going too fast or too slow?
+15:18 <Caracremada> too slow
+15:18 <simonbr> OK
+15:19 <simonbr> Next slide, What are Patents
+15:19 <simonbr> A patent is intended to induce an inventor to disclose knowledge for the advancement of society. In exchange for the disclosure, the inventor receives a limited period of exclusivity on the invention.
+15:19 <simonbr>  So if you invent something, and are able to get a patent on it, that means you can legally prevent someone else to produce, sell or use your invention, for a duration of 20 years.
+15:19 <simonbr> IIf you don't have the means to profit from your invention then you can also give out licences. Such licenses are in fact an agreement not to sue the licensee for making use of your invention.
+15:20 <simonbr> Ready for the next slide? 
+15:20 <khirano> yes
+15:20 <Caracremada> yup#
+15:20 <simonbr> Why have patents?
+15:20 <cle:21 <simonbr>  The reason for having patent law is to promote innovation. Without patents, an inventor may decide not to pursue an idea, because anybody would be able to use the invention, therefore the inventor may not be able to profit from it.
+15:21 <simonbr> This means useful ideas may not become available to society. The possibility to patent an invention makes it interesting to pursue, because it gives the inventor the means to profit from the invention.
+15:21 <simonbr> Next slide - Why is software a special case?
+15:22 <simonbr> The U.S. Patent Statute states that "Processes, machines, articles of manufacture, and compositions of matter are patentable."
+15:22 <JZA> form != form ;)
+15:22 <simonbr> Not patentable are scientific truths or mathematical expressions of it.
+15:22 <simonbr> In the European Patent Convention of 1973, computer programs are excluded from patentability.
+15:23 <simonbr> Also, software can be considered a form of expression comparable to mathematics and literature.   For this reason, software is covered by copyright, which sets it apart from things that can be patented.
+15:24 <simonbr> Next slide - why could software be considered patentable?
+15:24 <simonbr> Software makes a machine (a computer, or another technical apparatus) *do* something. In this sense it is clearly different from a mathematical truth or a literary work.
+15:24 <simonbr> In many cases, the same function of a device can be implemented in hardware (for example a logic circuit) or in software (an embedded processor whose programming results in the same effect).
+15:25 <simonbr> An example that is often quoted by the proponents of software patents is an automatic brake system.  Its behaviour could be controlled by pneumatics, analog electronics, or an embedded microcontroller with a software program.
+15:25 <simonbr> So it's not so obvious that software is not similar to the kinds of technology that can be patented.
+15:26 <simonbr> Next slide- What is against software patents?
+15:26 <simonbr> With software patents, sofe development becomes a legal minefield. Any software that is nontrivial may infringe on hundreds softwarepatents, even if independently developed without knowledge of those patents.
+15:26 <simonbr> Instead of concentrating on development the developer has to invest time to deal with software patents. In the US, researchers have found that software patents lead to less investment in R&D.
+15:27 <simonbr> Thus, software patents tend to *obstruct* innovation rather than promote it.
+15:27 <simonbr> This is not such a big deal for big companies, because they are often able to make cross licensing deals. In fact companies such as Microsoft and Philips are among the big promotors of software patents.
+15:27 <simonbr> Small and medium enterprises however don't have the means to make big patent portfolios. So they are at a big disadvantage
+15:28 <simonbr> Software patents are especially bad for Free Software projects. Even the threat of infringement is in some cases enough to stop or severely hinder a project. For instance the instant messenger Kopete is threatened by IM patents, and PostgreSQL had to revert to an inferior caching scheme due to patents. Of course we all know about the GIF patents. GIF was not supported by Free software until the patent recently ended.
+15:29 <simonbr> Ready for the next slide? (software patents in the US)
+15:29 <_kd> yes 
+15:29 <lgodard> yes
+15:29 <Caracremada> simon: what are sme's
+15:30 <simonbr>  In the 1970s, the U.S. P.T.O. (Patent and Trademark Office) avoided granting any patent if the invention utilized a calculation made by a computer. It viewed computer programs and inventions containing or relating to computer programs as mere mathematical algorithms, and not processes or machines.
+15:30 <simonbr> Caracremada, Small and Medium Enterprises
+15:30 <simonbr> In 1981 the Supreme Court forced the P.T.O to change it position, in  the case of Diamond v. Diehr. In that case, the invention related to a method for determining how rubber should be heated in order to be best "cured."  
+15:31 <simonbr> The invention (as defined by the claims) included not only the computer program, but also included steps relating to heating rubber, and removing the rubber from the heat.
+15:31 <simonbr> The Supreme Court stated that in this case, the invention was not merely a mathematical algorithm, but was a process for molding rubber, and hence was patentable.
+15:31 <simonbr>  even though the only "novel" feature of this invention was the timing process controlled by the computer.
+15:32 <simonbr> In the early 1990s, the Federal Circuit (the highest court for patent matters other than the Supreme Court) tried to clarify when a software related invention was patentable. If the invention utilizes the computer to manipulate numbers that represent concrete, real world values then it is a process relating to those real world concepts and is patentable.
+15:32 <simonbr>  In 1996, the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office adopted its Final Computer Related Examination Guidelines.A computer related invention will be patentable if it is claimed in connection with a specific machine or product. This can be accomplished by claiming the invention in connection with a specific type of computer or memory structure. What is not important is the type of computer program involved.
+15:33 <simonbr> For example a graphics program, a spreadsheet, and a word processing program are statutory when properly claimed.
+15:33 <simonbr> Next slide - Software patents in Europe
+15:34 <simonbr> In Europe, the European Patent Convention (treaty) of 1973 prohibited patenting of, among others, computer programs.
+15:34 <simonbr> In 1986 the European Patent Office (EPO) started granting patents that were directed to computer programs but presented in the guise of process claims, typically phrased as follows: "1. process for [using general-purpose computing equipment], characterised by ..."
+15:35 <simonbr> Patents granted on this basis were considered as hypothetical. The program as such, when distributed on a disk or via the Internet, did not constitute acess and was not an invention. To resolve this ambiguity, the European Patent Office took the final step toward patentability of pure software in 1998 by authorising program claims, i.e. claims of the following form: "2. computer program, characterised by that [with its help a process according to cl
+15:35 <simonbr> DIR="LTR"> In August 2000 the European Patent Organisation, i.e. the intergovernmental organisation that runs the European Patent Office, attempted to delete all the exclusions listed under Art 52 of the European Patent Convention (such as the one about computer programs). Due to public resistance which they apparently did not anticipate, this effort failed.   
+15:35 <simonbr>  
+15:36 <simonbr> In 2002 the European Commission proposed a European Directive on "Patentability of computer implemented inventions".
+15:36 <simonbr> "computer implemented inventions" is a euphemism for software, of course.
+15:37 <simonbr> Next slide - Democracy?
+15:37 <khirano> yep :)
+15:37 <simonbr> There was much protest against the directive, which in effect would make most software patentable.
+15:37 <SeamusLT> Hey this is a great presentation so far simonbr
+15:37 <simonbr> thanks
+15:37 <simonbr> The FFII (Foundation for Free Information Interchange) did much work to analyze the directive and to promote changes to it.  
+15:38 <simonbr> The European Parliament then tabled a great number of amendments and voted in favor of them.   The result would be a directive with real limits to patentability of software, and would be acceptable to those opposing software patents.
+15:38 <simonbr> According to the European procedures, the Council of Ministers (consisting of ministers of the member states) was then to revise the proposal, taking into account the amendments of the European Parliament. However, they then presented a proposal in which the most important amendments were disregarded! It would allow (if possible) even more software patents than the original proposal.  
+15:39 <simonbr> The parliaments of several member ststed against acceptance of this proposal, but after a confusing period the second step for acceptance was taken by the Council of Ministers.  
+15:40 <simonbr> Several member state parliaments (notably Poland and Denmark) attempted to make use of procedural possibilities to keep this from happening, but all attempts to do this were foiled. According to the Luxembourg president of the Council "This is not a banana union"!
+15:41 <khirano> i see, there banana go.
+15:41 <simonbr> You can see the banana I had in my lunch that day.
+15:42 <simonbr> If this runaway train could have been stopped, the directive would probably have to be remade from scratch, and the public discussion would have led to a much more acceptable result.  
+15:43 <simonbr> (sorry for the delay right now)
+15:43 <simonbr> Next slide, "what's next?"
+15:43 <Caracremada> eating a banana?:)
+15:44 <simonbr> With the acceptance of the proposal by the Council of Ministers, the Europarliament has to look at it again. In "second reading" they can again vote for amendments.  
+15:44 <simonbr> This part of the procedure actually started yesterday, april 15. The European Parliament has to decide on the Council proposal and file its amendments until 2005-07-15 .
+15:44 <simonbr> Unfortunately this time for each amendment to be accepted, an absolute majority is required. The votes of Members of the parliament who are absent from the voting, are also counted. So in practice the amendments require about 70 % of the votes of the MEPs present.
+15:45 <simonbr> The Europarliament is quite angry about the way the proposal has been handled by the Council, and this may mean it will not accept the proposal so easily. Rejection is also possible.   But it is difficult to predict the outcome.
+15:45 <simonbr> Next slide -  What can we do?
+15:46 <simonbr> I am convinced that awareness of the arguments pro and contra software patents is of the greatest importance. The more the public and the politicians know about the subject, the more likely they will be against software p15:47 <simonbr> The pro-software patents lobby has already been active talking to journalists. For example, this week in the NRC, a Dutch newspaper that is regarded as quite respectable, there was a big article that compared the anti-software patent people to anarchists.
+15:48 <simonbr> But in Trouw, another Dutch newspaper, a pro-software patents article was followed up by a very good article explaining the objections to software patents. Reactions from the community played a big part in the article coming about.
+15:48 <simonbr> Next slide, where to find more information
+15:49 <simonbr> I recommend www.nosoftwarepatents.com The tone of this website is rather alarming (you could almost call it FUD) but it is much more accessible.   
+15:49 <simonbr>  
+15:50 <simonbr> that is, more than the site of the FFII, www.ffii.org.  Very detailed information, information overload.   www.ffii.org
+15:51 <simonbr> It is a very complicated subject, anyway.
+15:51 <simonbr> The conclusion...
+15:51 <JZA> Ok question, I am not european, nor north american, so my question is what can I do regarding this issue. I remember there were systems about signature collection on (remember the one about Brasilian congressman vs. Microsoft) where people from all over (not just Brazil) was encourage to add their 'support signature'. Is there something similar about this here. any URL?
+15:52 <simonbr> The subject is very complicated for a short presentation. It was much longer than I had envisioned. I hope that I was able to convey the most important points.
+15:52 <Caracremada> Simon: you certainly have - clap clap clap
+15:52 <DanielC> clap clap clap clap
+15:52 <lgodard> simonbr:clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap 
+15:53  * JZA clap clap clap
+15:53 <IcoBgr> applause :)
+15:53 <SeamusLT> simonbr:  Excellent
+15:53 <IcoBgr> applause :)
+15:53 <simonbr> Thank you all for the attention!
+15:53 <DanielC> sorry for being late!  I set my phone to act as an alarm, but it was in "vibrate" mode!!
+15:53 <felipe> *clap clap clap clap*
+15:53 <Caracremada> Simon: can we ask questions now?
+15:53 <simonbr> Sure
+15:53 <Caracremada> Ok 1. Is the presentation available in other languages?
+15:54 <Caracremada> 2. If not, can we translate it (with you name still on it)?
+15:54 <simonbr> No, but of course you can translate it...
+15:54 <Caracremada> 3. Has it been sent to all MEP's?
+15:54 <simonbr> With my name on it OK
+15:55 <simonbr> No, I made this presentation specially for this occasion.
+15:55 <felipe> Caracremada: you might be able to synchronize that with FFII Spain or Proinnova people
+15:55 <JZA> Hi simon I asked a question before, about how can people from abroad get involve.
+15:55 <Caracremada> 4. filipe good idea
+15:56 <simonbr> JZA, keep a close watch what your government is doing with respect to software patents
+15:56 <JZA> simonbr: thanks
+15:56 <SeamusLT> simonbr:  How long do software patents last in the US and Europe?  is it the same amount of time as normal patents?
+15:56 <DanielC> JZA: You can organize talks and create awareness!!
+15:56 <simonbr> 20 years
+15:56 <Caracremada> 4. Is there a standard letter we can send to our MEP's that's been written. We can get more people that way since many don't want to compose their own letter.
+15:56 <pseudo_daoist> Q:Any suggestion on how to get the USPTO to stop issueing patents that are based upon prior art.  [ RSA, One click, etc? ]
+15:56 <DanielC> JZA: For example, I invited Simon to give a talk :-)
+15:56 <felipe> Caracremada: you could try "es-parl at ffii dot org" if you're not already there.
+15:57 <Caracremada> felipe, sorry my spanish is not good. I speak catalan but not spanish
+15:57 <simonbr> Caracremada: it is better to make your own letter. That would give a more sincere impression.
+15:57 <felipe> ahh :)
+15:57 <simonbr> Of course it is also very important to be very polite when you write to MEPs
+15:58 <JZA> Caracremada: barcelona?
+15:58 <felipe> Caracremada: http://patents.caliu.info
+15:58 <kartoon> please can you speak in french?
+15:58 <lgodard> simonbr: yes but some important points enumarated as a check list could be usefull
+15:58 <Caracremada> simon: I agree but many people don't have the time or will to compose their own. Other causes, use similar methods. Anyone is free to write their own. JZA: girona
+15:58 <simonbr> There is lots of info on writing letters on the FFII web site
+15:59 <Caracremada> Ok, I'll check it out, thx
+15:59 <lgodard> kartoon:this is an international talk sorry 
+15:59 <simonbr> Actually I would rather not have to spend time with software patents, but it is too important
+16:00 <SeamusLT> simonbr:  I see a rather dark future for free software if corporate interests become law.  How bad do you think it will get for video player projects, where I understand it is a "patent minefield"
+16:01 <simonbr> I think it may be possible that Free Software video player projects give up due to patent threats. There are already signals that they would
+16:01 <Caracremada> Seamus, if you use linux you have a hard time playing DVD's that you have bought legally!!! Because of the encryption.
+16:02 <simonbr> The free MP3 encoder project LAME already is out of the picture because of those concerns
+16:02 <Caracremada> Videolan is in trouble too because of the patents.
+16:02 <SeamusLT> the LAME project is dead?
+16:02 <simonbr> yes, as far as I know
+16:03 <Caracremada> Mplayer too, I could go on and on. It's really dangerous.
+16:03 <pseudo_daoist> But all those apatents were issued despite being bopth blatently obvious, and based upon prior art!
+16:03 <lgodard> about the duration, are there any plan to reduce the 20 years ? what were software 20 years ago, what will they be in 20 years ?
+16:04 <simonbr> No such plans as far as I am aware.
+16:04 <simonbr> It is clear that software innovation will not have the same pace as before.
+16:05 <Caracremada> I'll try and get some articles published in the Girona papers on this subject. Also El Pais has a supplement on informatica and friends of mine are journalists on that paper.
+16:05 <simonbr> @pseudo_daoist: it is difficult and costly to have a patent declared invalid due to prior art
+16:06 <SeamusLT> simon, Could an american company attempt to prosecute a european company over patent infringement if there aren't such patent laws in said european company?
+16:06 <simonbr> and the patent offices are not always able to determine if an invention has prior art/ is obvious
+16:06 <SeamusLT> in that particular country, I meant
+16:07 <simonbr> Seamus, they could. But the judge may not give them what they want.
+16:07 <danohnesorg> It is not possible reducing length of patent protection, TRIP says, that all signators are requested to prove, that patent will protect at least 20 years. And revision of TRIP is not on the plan for many many years
+16:07 <felipe> Caracremada: do you have an email address you could give me?
+16:08 <felipe> Caracremada: msg please?
+16:08 <lgodard> danohnesorg: what is TRIP ?
+16:08 <SeamusLT> simon, but the threat of a large company such as microsoft could be enough to kill a project
+16:09 <simonbr> Seamus, sure.
+16:09 <danohnesorg> sorry TRIPS, a multi (almost all) country agreement, made by WTO memebers
+16:09 <lgodard> danohnesorg: sorry, what is WTO (trying to decode acronyms)
+16:09 <simonbr> In fact I believe that most of the 30.000 software patents that the EPO has already given out are in the hands of US companies
+16:10 <SeamusLT> wow
+16:10 <danohnesorg> World Trade Organization
+16:10 <lgodard> danohnesorg:thx
+16:10 <pseudo_daoist> Would it be worthwhile sending letters the european newspapers listing the patents that have been issued, and the prior art that either their patent office, or more commonly the USPTO ignorned/did not know about?  
+16:11 <pseudo_daoist> Especially if that prior art were 1 000 years old?
+16:12 <SeamusLT> simonbr I don't know what I can do about this, it seems as if corporations control america and most people are so uninformed/uncaring on the issue that things may never change
+16:12 <DanielC> pseudo_daoist: someone successfully got a patent for the wheel.
+16:13 <danohnesorg> you must also note very important point if the rules changes while the play is running, the player, which is used for new rules wins, so if you will allow USPO rules in europe, companies, which have already US patents will winn most of European patents too, while players here will search what is under new rules possible, US players will be getting patents
+16:13 <DanielC> pseudo_daoist, simonbr: I think pseudo's idea is very good.
+16:13 <simonbr> http://webshop.ffii.org
+16:14 <simonbr> That is where you can see the possible effect of a number of patents that were already issued by the EPO
+16:16 <simonbr> Seamus, the most important thing to do is to raise awareness of the issues with everyone you know, the general public, the media, the politicians.
+16:16 <simonbr> The effectiveness of that has already been surprising.
+16:16 <Caracremada> I'm off now. Thanks to Simon and to all of you for the discussion. 35 people is a start (and surely other things are going on too). Thanks to you all. Bye.
+16:17 <lgodard> but we also have to give clear actions to do
+16:17 <simonbr> Who knows it is enough to have the directive amended again or thrown out completely.,
+16:17 <lgodard> otherwise people will only  say : yes, bad  ...
+16:18 <simonbr> Laurent, keep an eye on FFII.org. There are mailing lists you could subscribe to. This works very well to coordinate actions
+16:18 <lgodard> ok
+16:19 <lgodard> but should be part of the spreading of the 'information'
+16:20 <simonbr> Again, thanks for the attention all!
+16:21 <khirano> simonbr: I will keep my eyes on Japanese government.
+16:21 <lgodard> thanks to you Simon
+16:21 <khirano> simonbr: thanks!
+16:21 <felipe> simonbr: Thank you very much for your time and your efforts.
+16:21 <DanielC> Thank you Simon!
+16:21 <simonbr> Bye
+16:21 <IcoBgr> 10x Simon
+16:21 <lgodard> bye Simon :)
+16:21 <IcoBgr> bye
+16:22 <lgodard> all: bye, it seems i have some reading on FFII to perform ...
+16:22 <danohnesorg> khirano: also in Japan is patent system harmonized with USA system and software patents are legal
+16:22 <khirano> danohnesorg: you are right.
+16:23 <JZA> actually in Mexico, (I just found out) that there is no patents for free software..... then again we don't have a mature software industry :)
+16:24 <danohnesorg> khirano: also USA, Australia and Japan have software patents, and now is made some agreement under WTO with China, that there should be software patents - USA patent system - implemented too
+16:25 <felipe> hmm, China doesn't want that. for sure.
+16:26 <danohnesorg> felipe: i was in EU parl last week and i have heard, that china will accept it, but I have no link to some paper about this
+16:27 <felipe> well, that would be an enormous setback for uhhh everything
+16:27 <felipe> do you have any reference at all that I could check, something I could google for, a date maybe..?
+16:29 <danohnesorg> I dont have, but vicepresident mr. Ouzky said it, there is no acceptance of copyright, but they have suceeded with acceptance of patents, so he said, that it will be better to protect software with patents than with copyright, becouse other way china will destroy software industry in europe
+16:30 <khirano> danohnesorg: it's shame :(  We have a saying, If U.S. coughs then Japan gets cold.
+16:31 <felipe> no kidding
+16:31 <felipe> that's a good reason for them *not* to accept though.
+16:32 <felipe> and would put enormous pressure on Europe to do the same if their decision was already made and publicized.
+16:32 <danohnesorg> its very complicated, we have very long speech about lisabon strategy and he wonted from me to explain, how will be protected the outcome from this strategy, if copyright won't protect algorithms in software and patent protection is no acceptable for me
+16:32 <JZA> khirano: wow we said that if US get a cold, Mexico get bornquitis 
+16:35 <khirano> JZA: let us chage :)
+16:35 <felipe> the problem we have is that the US *does* have a patent cold.
+16:37 <felipe> either the rest of the world gets sick too, or the rest of the world stays healthy and they will be forced to find some kind of solution to their sickness.
+16:38 <khirano> DanielC: did you get the log?
+16:38 <DanielC> khirano: felipe is sending me one.
+16:38 <felipe> *nod*
+16:38 <khirano> good
+16:38 <DanielC> :)
+16:40 <khirano> thanks everyone, good night
+16:41 <khirano> see you again, bye :)
+16:41 <DanielC> bye bye, thank you for comming.
+16:41 <felipe> yeah, good uhhh evening ;)
+16:41 <DanielC> morning
+16:41 <DanielC> :-)
+16:42 <felipe> is there anybody who I haven't been chatting privately with that I should have been chatting privately with? if so, message me please.
+17:44  * DanielC is away: food! food! food!
\ No newline at end of file

Propchange: incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/native-lang/conference/logs/16-April-2005-Software-Patents.txt
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    svn:eol-style = native



Mime
View raw message