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From "Dennis E. Hamilton" <dennis.hamil...@acm.org>
Subject RE: "Apache ODF Toolkit" versus "The Apache ODF Toolkit"
Date Wed, 25 Jan 2012 18:37:26 GMT
"The Hague" is evidently the official, formal name.  "Den Hague" in Dutch.

Back to ODF Toolkit, it appears that "The" as in a formal name is not an Apache practice.
 It also becomes awkward to bolt into the name.  I wouldn't say "the Apache ODF Toolkit 0.95."

What has us use the definite article in some places and not others is a mystery.  Something
for Daniel Pink to blog about, perhaps.

 - Dennis

PS: I notice that I am finding it easier and easier to just say "ODF Toolkit" to myself. 
Curious and more curious.  (My spell-checker doesn't want me to quote Alice in Wonderland.)

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 09:40
To: odf-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: "Apache ODF Toolkit" versus "The Apache ODF Toolkit"

On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 12:22 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
<dennis.hamilton@acm.org> wrote:
> < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands_(terminology)>.  For the Dutch, it is
"Nederland", not "Nederlands" and the "the" is not part of the name, no more than in "the
United States."
>

Well, in English it is required. "The Hague" is another one.

> It appears that the definite article is not required and, when used, does not have to
be considered part of the nomenclature.  I.e., "the Apache OpenOffice project".
>
> I agree that "Apache ODF Toolkit" is difficult to refer to without saying "the".  I wonder,
as does Rob, whether this is simply a matter of habit.  I don't have the tendency with "Apache
Subversion" or any other Apache <one-word> projects that I can think of.
>

Looking at other Apache projects with multi-word names, I see examples
of both patterns:

-- "the Apache HTTP Server"
-- "the Apache Portable Runtime Server"

but

-- "Apache Traffic Server"
-- "Apache Directory Studio"

One thing appears common, that even if there is no "the" in the
product name, the project is referred to as "the foo project".

>
>
>  - Dennis
>
> PS: If there were a version number, the desired to prefix "the" goes away!  Apache ODF
Toolkit 0.90, for example.  That's how it works for me.  "Toolkit" seems to be the culprit.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 08:48
> To: odf-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: "Apache ODF Toolkit" versus "The Apache ODF Toolkit"
>
> Something that has been bothering me, a little inconsistency.
>
> The legacy project, pre-incubation, was with an organization called
> "The ODF Toolkit Union".  We referred to the project as "The ODF
> Toolkit".
>
> Now that we're here, we add "Apache" to our name.  But are we "The
> Apache ODF Toolkit" or just "Apache ODF Toolkit"?
>
> -- "I download Apache ODF Toolkit" versus "I downloaded the Apache ODF Toolkit"
>
> -- "Welcome to Apache ODF Toolkit project" versus "Welcome to the
> Apache ODF Toolkit project"
>
> and so on.
>
> I'm seeing both forms in use on our website and our communications.
> We should probably agree on one or the other.
>
> To me, the form without the "the" seems unnatural and awkward, but
> that might just be from my long exposure to the legacy name.
> Similarly, there is nothing intrinsically odd about referring to
> "Netherlands" rather then "the Netherlands" other than convention puts
> a "the" there.
>
> Does anyone have a preference, or a good argument for one form over the other.
>
> -Rob
>


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