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From "Dennis E. Hamilton" <>
Subject RE: "Apache ODF Toolkit" versus "The Apache ODF Toolkit"
Date Wed, 25 Jan 2012 18:37:26 GMT
"The Hague" is evidently the official, formal name.  "Den Hague" in Dutch.

Back to ODF Toolkit, it appears that "The" as in a formal name is not an Apache practice.
 It also becomes awkward to bolt into the name.  I wouldn't say "the Apache ODF Toolkit 0.95."

What has us use the definite article in some places and not others is a mystery.  Something
for Daniel Pink to blog about, perhaps.

 - Dennis

PS: I notice that I am finding it easier and easier to just say "ODF Toolkit" to myself. 
Curious and more curious.  (My spell-checker doesn't want me to quote Alice in Wonderland.)

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Weir [] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 09:40
Subject: Re: "Apache ODF Toolkit" versus "The Apache ODF Toolkit"

On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 12:22 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
<> wrote:
> <>.  For the Dutch, it is
"Nederland", not "Nederlands" and the "the" is not part of the name, no more than in "the
United States."

Well, in English it is required. "The Hague" is another one.

> It appears that the definite article is not required and, when used, does not have to
be considered part of the nomenclature.  I.e., "the Apache OpenOffice project".
> I agree that "Apache ODF Toolkit" is difficult to refer to without saying "the".  I wonder,
as does Rob, whether this is simply a matter of habit.  I don't have the tendency with "Apache
Subversion" or any other Apache <one-word> projects that I can think of.

Looking at other Apache projects with multi-word names, I see examples
of both patterns:

-- "the Apache HTTP Server"
-- "the Apache Portable Runtime Server"


-- "Apache Traffic Server"
-- "Apache Directory Studio"

One thing appears common, that even if there is no "the" in the
product name, the project is referred to as "the foo project".

>  - Dennis
> PS: If there were a version number, the desired to prefix "the" goes away!  Apache ODF
Toolkit 0.90, for example.  That's how it works for me.  "Toolkit" seems to be the culprit.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Weir []
> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 08:48
> To:
> Subject: "Apache ODF Toolkit" versus "The Apache ODF Toolkit"
> Something that has been bothering me, a little inconsistency.
> The legacy project, pre-incubation, was with an organization called
> "The ODF Toolkit Union".  We referred to the project as "The ODF
> Toolkit".
> Now that we're here, we add "Apache" to our name.  But are we "The
> Apache ODF Toolkit" or just "Apache ODF Toolkit"?
> -- "I download Apache ODF Toolkit" versus "I downloaded the Apache ODF Toolkit"
> -- "Welcome to Apache ODF Toolkit project" versus "Welcome to the
> Apache ODF Toolkit project"
> and so on.
> I'm seeing both forms in use on our website and our communications.
> We should probably agree on one or the other.
> To me, the form without the "the" seems unnatural and awkward, but
> that might just be from my long exposure to the legacy name.
> Similarly, there is nothing intrinsically odd about referring to
> "Netherlands" rather then "the Netherlands" other than convention puts
> a "the" there.
> Does anyone have a preference, or a good argument for one form over the other.
> -Rob

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