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From Daisy Guo <daisy.yc...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [tdf-discuss] ODF and HTML 5
Date Sun, 09 Oct 2011 02:01:05 GMT
Hi, Dennis

I like your proposal. Web office becomes more and more popular than
desktop office. It's a good idea to link ODF with HTML5.
What kind of Prove of Concept is it in your mind, that you want to
implement with ODF Toolkit? I believe there are some existing projects
which are trying to implement the conversion between ODF and HTML5,
like WebODF.

Daisy

2011/10/4 Dennis E. Hamilton <dennis.hamilton@acm.org>:
> My apologies for the heavy-duty cross-posting.  It might be good to pick a single public
list and a subject header and converge there.
>
> Q: WHERE IS THE PROPOSAL?
>
> This started as a simple e-mail list question by Jaime R. Garza on the [tdf-discuss]
list:
> <http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/msg07698.html>.
>
> There is no proposal in the sense of some technical submission to adapt ODF for this
purpose.  You are pretty much seeing the extent of the discussion so far.  The proposal
is a paragraph and concept being echoed around these lists now.
>
> Q: WHERE TO BECOME INVOLVED IN ODF IN HTML5?
>
> There are probably two ways to be involved.
>
> First, development of a proof-of-concept and working [reference] implementation is valuable.
>
> Secondly, the development of necessary specifications, perhaps jointly between the OASIS
ODF TC and the W3C, might be required.
>
> Also, one needs to differentiate between making some sort of OpenOffice.org/LibreOffice
deliverable that works in HTML5 and a worked extension of HTML5 that somehow ties into the
ODF Format.
>
> It might not even make technical sense to "make ODF part of HTML5," and that has to be
resolved also.
>
> Q: WHAT ABOUT OASIS (and what does Rob Weir have to say about this)?
>
> Rob is on vacation this week.  I know he and others involved on the OASIS TCs are interested
in this topic.
>
> A related topic (defining HTML5 presentation of ODF documents) was raised at the OASIS
ODF Interoperability and Conformance (OIC TC) on their 2011-09-07 teleconference call:
> <http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/oic/201109/msg00009.html>.  It came under
section 3.2.3 Profiles.  The discussion is of a Web Profile for ODF.  That is not an insignificant
effort.
>
> Q: WHAT ARE THE TECHNICAL CHALLENGES?
>
>   ODF has no rendering model and certainly not an interactive-presentation/-editing
model.  None.  Obviously, OpenOffice.org/LibreOffice do, but those is not to be found in
the ODF specification.
>
> There are an insignificant number of [X]HTML-isms in the ODF specifications.  XLINK
is used, for example.
>
> There is no specified mapping to [X]HTML.  If there were, the import/export of [X]HTML
in various implementations of ODF-bases software would presumable work better.  That would
be the potential subject matter of a Web Profile though.
>
> There is no standardized ODF DOM (and API) nor a mapping of ODF into an HTML[5] DOM.
 Somehow, to make macros and applets work inside ODF, something like this is required as
well, although having it fit HTML5 as well might be a confusion of abstraction levels.  (The
integration of macros and applets that access the interior structure and external presentation
of an ODF document is implementation-defined in ODF 1.2.)
>
> Q: WHERE CAN TECHNICAL DEVELOPMENT HAPPEN?
>
> The ODF Toolkit project offers some DOM implementations, but they are not part of ODF
itself.
>
> The ODF Toolkit project is currently being moved to Apache though.  That project is
currently quite Java-centric.  It might be interesting to include that effort in this conversation,
however.
>
> If a public reference implementation were to be developed, I believe it is desirable
to have it be Apache licensed, wherever development were to occur.  The possibility of a
new podling at Apache specifically for this effort should not be overlooked.
>
> That is the only political part that I see to these challenges, apart from developers,
including in private projects, wanting to do it themselves.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jaime R. Garza [mailto:garzaj@gmail.com]
> <http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/msg07708.html>
> < http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201110.mbox/%3cCAJGN0paeBoKS7HTqpc0waW_qRJgcxEZr-rk+63MMBuBsCe-Xxg@mail.gmail.com%3e>
>
> Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 03:29
> To: discuss@documentfoundation.org
> Cc: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] ODF and HTML 5
>
> Do you have any contacts, links, infos about the proposal and status? I
> would really like to get involved!
>
> I think the first step is to integrate ODF into HTML5 as read only, editing
> could come later. But this is more political than technical.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Jaime
>
> On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 11:07, Ian Lynch <ianrlynch@gmail.com> wrote:
> < http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/msg07705.html>
> < http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201110.mbox/%3cCAOap24+y0rFCOA78YFHTLMURQ5LO4OJ7aaLyi3HP0rtFm-2EOw@mail.gmail.com%3e>
>
>> There has been a proposal to try and get ODF recognised as an official
>> extension of HTML5. On the face of it it sounds a good idea but I
>> don't know enough about the details or whether this is already in
>> progress. I guess it would require discussion with W3C, OASIS, and
>> probably TDF and ASF as a minimum. A logical technical need could be
>> to develop ODF rendering and editing in web browsers. To start with
>> this might simply be a limited subset of what can be achieved in
>> OO/LibO.
>> --
>> Ian
> [ ... ]
>
>

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