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From "Gav..." <ga...@16degrees.com.au>
Subject [libcloud] Community/Committers to address Mentors concerns (was:RE: [libcloud] [VOTE] - Libcloud to become a TLP.)
Date Tue, 07 Dec 2010 01:49:32 GMT
Ok, so although the recent vote passed, it seems clear that we should not
proceed to an Incubator PMC vote without the full backing and support of all
the projects Mentors.

Below, I list again the remaining concerns of Ant, and now it is up to the
community and committers to address them.
I will not go forward with an Incubator vote until this is done. It does not
look to be much that needs addressing.

Further down, I have left my earlier replies intact.

Gav...

Ants concerns: 

[1] - I'm not sure I'm convinced there's nothing more to be learnt here.
Dealing with what to do with the Java impl would help at least demonstrate
the community can deal with an awkward situation, just leaving it in the
sandbox seems like a holding pattern to me.

[2] But even if thats not done i don't get the warm fuzzy feeling that the
libcloud community has learnt the Apache Way yet. It would be nice to see
not just the same one person doing all the releases, all the committer
nominations, most of the commits etc, even with graduation there hasn't been
any real discussion that i've seen about what the graduation requirements
are and why they've been met.

[3]If for some reason you were unable to continue here Paul i'm not seeing
much evidence that the others would know all the ropes to continue. What do
mentors/others think about this?


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gav... [mailto:gavin@16degrees.com.au]
> Sent: Monday, 29 November 2010 9:34 AM
> To: libcloud@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: [libcloud] [VOTE] - Libcloud to become a TLP.
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ant elder [mailto:ant.elder@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Sunday, 28 November 2010 7:31 PM
> > To: libcloud@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: [libcloud] [VOTE] - Libcloud to become a TLP.
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 5:08 PM, Gav... <gavin@16degrees.com.au>
> wrote:
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > This is a chance for the libcloud community and committers to
> > > vote on whether or not you think we are ready to become an
> > > ASF top level project. In other words, the community thinks
> > > it has learned all it can from the Incubator, and that we feel
> > > we are following the guidelines learned along the way.
> > >
> > > Please vote now, we have plenty of time until the next board
> > > meeting is due in which a resolution would be required, so we'll
> > > leave this open for 1 week to gather as many votes as possible.
> > >
> > > [ ] - +1 - yes please, we are ready to become a TLP.
> > >
> > > [ ] - -/+0 - Not that opinionated either way.
> > >
> > > [ ] - -1 - no , I don't think we are ready , because ...
> > >
> > > Note any -1 must be accompanied by a detailed explanation.
> > >
> > > This vote will close one week from today.
> > >
> > > Gav...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I'm -1 for the reasons described at:
> > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-
> > libcloud/201011.mbox/%3CAANLkTim8ViOH3-D9TVbpUbgySTjWXns-
> > RRv_4iSELw06@mail.gmail.com%3E
> 
> Well, let's bring those reasons here:
> 
> Quote: "...
> 
> [1]I'm not sure I'm convinced there's nothing more to be learnt here.
> Dealing with what to do with the Java impl would help at least
> demonstrate the community can deal with an awkward situation, just
> leaving it in the sandbox seems like a holding pattern to me.
> 
> [2] But even if thats not done i don't get the warm fuzzy feeling that
> the
> libcloud
> community has learnt the Apache Way yet. It would be nice to see not
> just the same one person doing all the releases, all the committer
> nominations, most of the commits etc, even with graduation there
> hasn't been any real discussion that i've seen about what the
> graduation requirements are and why they've been met.
> 
> [3]If for some reason you were unable to continue here Paul i'm not
> seeing
> much
> evidence that the others would know all the ropes to continue. What do
> mentors/others think about this?
> 
> ..."
> 
> I've split them into 1,2,3 and address them here:
> 
> [1] - Paul has already explained this to my satisfaction. A sandbox
> area is
> fine for
> the java impl. The project need not have took it at all but they did.
> Mainly
> one person
> works on this area currently and is happy with its progress. The whole
> of a
> projects
> code need not be in a state of release for it to graduate from the
> incubator. Accepting
> the code and granting committer status and an area for this to be
> developed
> shows
> that the community dealt with the situation just fine.
> 
> [2] - One person doing the releases is fine for now. I know plenty of
> other
> podlings that
> graduated with only one RM - in some cases with only one release. I
> know
> plenty of
> Top Level Projects that have had the same RM for years. I am involved
> with
> one such project.
> Over time, other committers will learn to see and nominate prospective
> committers, again not
> a big deal IMHO and not something that other podlings have been delayed
> for.
> Commit diversity: http://www.ohloh.net/p/libcloud/contributors?page=1
> shows
> 16 committers - yes
> Paul has done more than anyone else, but 316 out of 694 is less than
> half
> total commits. Again
> I can show you many many projects where one committer has more than
> double
> the next person, and
> especially when the project first starts out, that is just the way it
> is,
> nothing to worry
> about IMHO.
> I am going to agree with you with regard to graduation requirements to
> a
> point. It is up to the
> Mentors I feel to point out and help address these requirements if they
> are
> not being met. We
> have been mostly hands off Mentors - which is fine, but it does show
> that
> the project in the
> main has been moving along by itself.
> 
> As both you and I have mentioned before, the only thing I can see that
> I
> would like addressed
> is the question of diversity - would someone who is not a mentor please
> edit
> the document
> at http://incubator.apache.org/projects/libcloud.html and put down your
> employer if your
> employer is paying you to work on this project, otherwise simply write
> 'independent' beside
> your name. I will hold back my vote until this is done.
> 
> [3] - I don't want to speculate or penalise a project for something
> that
> might or might not
> happen in the future and especially not knowing the state of the
> project or
> the knowledge
> of the other committers at that time should it happen. It would be
> wrong to
> hold a -1 to
> graduation based on this.
> 
> --
> 
> So summary then Ant to your questions, I think overall I am satisfied
> with
> the project and its
> committers readiness to graduate. In places I think you are perhaps
> being a
> little too strict
> though I completely understand your reasonings. I guess I have a more
> liberal view of the
> incubator as a whole, and comparing libcloud with other projects that I
> know
> to have graduated
> or failed, I feel they are generally in good stead, if a little lazy on
> the
> paperwork.
> 
> If I see that the http://incubator.apache.org/projects/libcloud.html
> page
> gets updated correctly
> as I have asked before the deadline, then my +1 will be forthcoming.
> 
> 
> Gav...
> 
> 
> >
> >    ...ant
> 




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