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From Robert Burrell Donkin <>
Subject Re: First Release, tutorial
Date Mon, 14 Sep 2009 16:55:46 GMT
(this email is just personal opinions with my mentor hat removed)

On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 12:06 PM, Steve Poole <> wrote:
> I'd vote for not doing it Stuart, your on the hook as you're down as the
> tutor.    Perhaps we can go for the next ApacheCon?

perhaps but i'd recommend thinking hard before turning this one down...

ApacheCon is a great experience, and offers a great chance to learn
and network. this one is the 10th birthday bash and is going to be
very special indeed. if the tutorial offers a way to attend that you
wouldn't otherwise have then you may well later regret turning the
offer down.

> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Stuart Monteith <> wrote:
>> +1
>> I also think it's too early. There is no sign on the mailing list of people
>> trying out what we have already - I'd like more insight from community
>> members
>> before taking it to a tutorial.

perhaps it might be worthwhile talking to an old hand who regularly
does tutorials at ApacheCon.  want me to try to set something up?

>> Steve Poole wrote:
>>> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 5:39 PM, Stuart Monteith <>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>  It turns out that of our submissions to ApacheConUS 2009, one was
>>>> accepted. Oddly enough, it was a tutorial rather than a presentation.
>>>> Here are the details:
>>>> Before such a thing occurs there should be a release of some sort of our
>>>> project's code.
>>>> I was wondering what people (esp. mentors)  thought about that. The code
>>>> itself would be like an alpha release.  This would hopefully encourage
>>>> discussion and early adoption, and possible participation.

release often, release early :-)

i don't know the code but IMHO it's worthwhile thinking about whether
'alpha' is really the best description

for example, IMHO

* kato-1.0-alpha implies that 1.0 is pretty much done but the code
hasn't had the real life testing required to be sure that the quality
is there. once an alpha is shipped, i would expect the code to be
stable, with just bug fixes until a 1.0
* kato-0.1 implies that kato is short of features and is not mature as
an API but that the code quality is reasonable as far as it goes
* kato-M1 implies that kato is immature and under very active
development but that this milestone offers an island of stability

>>>> The steps I think would should take towards a release would include:
>>>>  o Writing documentation

documentation is essential when developing a user base. IMHO if aiming
for a 0.1 or an M1, minimal documentation would be ok.

>>>>  o Improving the website  - it's difficult to ascertain what we are
>>>> offering. The binaries would be linkable from here.

got to have something to offer first ;-)

IMHO users tend to want a binary to play. so, i'd probably wait until
kato has some sort of binary available before improving the website.

>>>>  o Establishing on this mailing list our current state.
>>>> There is a release process drafted here:
>>>> , but I'm not
>>>> sure how achievable all of that is at this stage of the project.

it's usually easier to cut a release whilst a project is young and
simple: the longer it's left, the more work it usually turns out to

>>>> I'll be very interested in what everyone's thoughts are.
>>>> One question I have is what is the expectation on tutorials at
>>> ApacheCon?    I'm sure we can create the necessary material but I worry
>>> about offering a tutorial for something as early in its life as Kato.

a tutorial is long, hands-on small-group training session paid for by
those attending

judging from the pitch
( i would expect an
expert session heavy on JSR326 and practical experiences with kato as
the tool being used for the problem solving. for a tutorial practical
as described, kato doesn't need to be finished just useful as a
practical problem solving tool.

- robert

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