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From Stuart Monteith <stuk...@stoo.me.uk>
Subject Re: First Release, tutorial
Date Tue, 15 Sep 2009 15:59:19 GMT
Thanks for your encouraging reply Robert.
I've scattered by replies through yours below.

Thanks again,
    Stuart

Robert Burrell Donkin wrote:
> (this email is just personal opinions with my mentor hat removed)
>
> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 12:06 PM, Steve Poole <spoole167@googlemail.com> wrote:
>   
>> I'd vote for not doing it Stuart, your on the hook as you're down as the
>> tutor.    Perhaps we can go for the next ApacheCon?
>>     
>
> perhaps but i'd recommend thinking hard before turning this one down...
>
> ApacheCon is a great experience, and offers a great chance to learn
> and network. this one is the 10th birthday bash and is going to be
> very special indeed. if the tutorial offers a way to attend that you
> wouldn't otherwise have then you may well later regret turning the
> offer down.
>
>   
My concern is that what we have is immature and has never been used in 
anger. While what we
are doing may be interesting, it isn't something to be used in 
production. Therefore I don't believe
that it would be fair to the paying attendees to do the tutorial just yet.
>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Stuart Monteith <stukato@stoo.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> +1
>>>
>>> I also think it's too early. There is no sign on the mailing list of people
>>> trying out what we have already - I'd like more insight from community
>>> members
>>> before taking it to a tutorial.
>>>       
>
> perhaps it might be worthwhile talking to an old hand who regularly
> does tutorials at ApacheCon.  want me to try to set something up?
>
>   
We'd like to do a tutorial at some point, so that may still be useful.

>>> Steve Poole wrote:
>>>
>>>       
>>>> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 5:39 PM, Stuart Monteith <stukato@stoo.me.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>  It turns out that of our submissions to ApacheConUS 2009, one was
>>>>> accepted. Oddly enough, it was a tutorial rather than a presentation.
>>>>> Here are the details:
>>>>>  http://us.apachecon.com/c/acus2009/speakers/282
>>>>>
>>>>> Before such a thing occurs there should be a release of some sort of
our
>>>>> project's code.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was wondering what people (esp. mentors)  thought about that. The code
>>>>> itself would be like an alpha release.  This would hopefully encourage
>>>>> discussion and early adoption, and possible participation.
>>>>>           
>
> release often, release early :-)
>
> i don't know the code but IMHO it's worthwhile thinking about whether
> 'alpha' is really the best description
>
> for example, IMHO
>
> * kato-1.0-alpha implies that 1.0 is pretty much done but the code
> hasn't had the real life testing required to be sure that the quality
> is there. once an alpha is shipped, i would expect the code to be
> stable, with just bug fixes until a 1.0
> * kato-0.1 implies that kato is short of features and is not mature as
> an API but that the code quality is reasonable as far as it goes
> * kato-M1 implies that kato is immature and under very active
> development but that this milestone offers an island of stability
>
>   
That last option is the most promising, I'll follow up with what I think 
we should do.

>>>>> The steps I think would should take towards a release would include:
>>>>>  o Writing documentation
>>>>>           
>
> documentation is essential when developing a user base. IMHO if aiming
> for a 0.1 or an M1, minimal documentation would be ok.
>
>   
Agreed. Documentation is like some things. Even what it's bad, it's been 
that having none at all.
>>>>>  o Improving the website  - it's difficult to ascertain what we are
>>>>> offering. The binaries would be linkable from here.
>>>>>           
>
> got to have something to offer first ;-)
>
> IMHO users tend to want a binary to play. so, i'd probably wait until
> kato has some sort of binary available before improving the website.
>
>   
Ok.
>>>>>  o Establishing on this mailing list our current state.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is a release process drafted here:
>>>>> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/releasemanagement.html , but I'm not
>>>>> sure how achievable all of that is at this stage of the project.
>>>>>           
>
> it's usually easier to cut a release whilst a project is young and
> simple: the longer it's left, the more work it usually turns out to
> be.
>
>   
Sure, I can see how it'll take a few goes even to get it right, and once 
we've got a stable process the delta between
releases should be smaller.
>>>>> I'll be very interested in what everyone's thoughts are.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> One question I have is what is the expectation on tutorials at
>>>>>           
>>>> ApacheCon?    I'm sure we can create the necessary material but I worry
>>>> about offering a tutorial for something as early in its life as Kato.
>>>>         
>
> a tutorial is long, hands-on small-group training session paid for by
> those attending
>
> judging from the pitch
> (http://us.apachecon.com/c/acus2009/sessions/397) i would expect an
> expert session heavy on JSR326 and practical experiences with kato as
> the tool being used for the problem solving. for a tutorial practical
> as described, kato doesn't need to be finished just useful as a
> practical problem solving tool.
>
> - robert
>   
That sounds close to what I had in mind. I think we are somewhat lacking in practical experiences
and problem solving - I'd like for more experience with what we have. Unfortunately the potential
for adversely affecting JVMs is somewhat high.


-- 
Stuart Monteith
http://blog.stoo.me.uk/


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