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From "Christophe Dupriez" <>
Subject Re: Page types
Date Mon, 07 Jul 2008 08:12:05 GMT
Hi all!

Thanks a lot for the healthy discussion and advices: I will let you know what I will have
done finally (and practically!)

Thanks Murray for the reference to "Balisage" conference in Montreal:

To come back to the "tagging" concept, personnaly I see two different situations:
* the classification of documents (the document "type") which determine its lifecycle (workflow),
its access rules, its layout, etc.
  Each document having one class (type), possibly in a hierarchy of classes.
* the indexation of documents ("keywords") which indicates its topics, processing status,
linked places, epochs, people, organizations, etc.

I see more the tags has parts of the indexation system than the classification. But a discussion
on this may just turn like a discussion about typing versus untyping programming languages!!!

To support classification also implies:
1) the Page Renaming is bug less even with uppercase accented letters, spaces and special
characters: the page name embedding the class, it must be possible to change it without problems
even for dictionnaries with complex names
2) a solution is found for multilingualism (pages with different names in different languages
but grouped has "equivalent by translation": references would consider pages in a "translation
group" has being the same)

Thanks again and Keep on the Good Work!

Christophe Dupriez
Centre Antipoisons-Antigifcentrum
C/o Hôpital Central de la Base Reine Astrid
Rue Bruyn
1120 Bruxelles
tel 32-(0)
fax 32-(0)

----- Original Message -----
From: Murray Altheim []
Subject: Re: Page types

> Bob Paige wrote:
> > Christophe,
> > 
> > What if you wrote a page filter that included the semantic content? Tying
> > this back to the Alias/Macro discussion, the content to be inserted could
> be
> > in other wiki pages named after the different type, i.e.
> WhitePaper-Header,
> > WhitePaper-Footer, Event-Header, Event-Footer, etc.
> > 
> > The catch would be to identify what 'type' of page is being processed.
> > 
> > The simplest solution is to base in on the page name. For example,
> > whitepapers could always have a suffix of 'WhitePaper', i.e. 'Agricultural
> > WhitePaper'.
> I've always found attempts at overloading use of the page name to be
> fraught with a lot of issues, not the least of which is to force page
> names sometimes into very ugly patterns just to conform to a specific
> need, then not fit a different need.
> One of the major benefits of faceted classification in library systems
> is to mitigate the fragility of enumerated classification systems, and
> while it's not using a controlled vocabulary, the WikiTag [1] function-
> ality (part of the CeryleWikiPlugins) does permit a separation of what
> you're calling "semantic content" from the page name.
>    [{Tag WhitePaper }]
> Given you can query the TagManager [2] directly with a page to see if
> it has a tag (using a direct match or a regex, see [3]), it's possible
> to obtain a list of pages containing a tag, which could be used as
> input into another plugin (e.g., the IfPlugin) for further processing.
> > A more complicated solution would be to add arbitrary meta-data to the
> page
> > and have the filter choose based on this meta-data. I see some discussion
> of
> > metadata here ( Personally, I
> > think the CSS approach makes the most sense.
> If that arbitrary metadata were in the form of tags or say, a Dublin
> Core subject (keyword) list, yes. I don't understand the idea of using
> a stylesheet (presentation) approach to embedding meaning (semantics)
> that can be "reasoned" upon.
> On IdeasMetadata my note from 2005 might indicate some of the work I've
> been doing since then in developing an "Assertion Framework" that
> incorporates the TagPlugin in a more complicated system that permits
> assertions of the form
>     [{Assert [BassettHound] KindOf [Dog] }]
> with a (relatively) simple inference engine permitting "answers" to
> queries. I'll be presenting a paper on this at Balisage 2008 in
> Montreal this August.
> Murray
> ----
> PS. there is a known bug in the TagPlugin: the 'AND' logical operator
> is currently non-functional and will be fixed in an upcoming release.
> [1] WikiTags
> [2] TagManager
> [3] javadocs, see hasTag(String pagename, String tag)
> ...........................................................................
> Murray Altheim <murray07 at>                           ===  = =
>                                     = =  ===
> SGML Grease Monkey, Banjo Player, Wantanabe Zen Monk               = =  = =
>        Boundless wind and moon - the eye within eyes,
>        Inexhaustible heaven and earth - the light beyond light,
>        The willow dark, the flower bright - ten thousand houses,
>        Knock at any door - there's one who will respond.
>                                        -- The Blue Cliff Record

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