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From "Christophe Dupriez" <>
Subject Re: Localization
Date Wed, 23 Jan 2008 11:40:36 GMT
Hi Murray!

I am playing with thesauri since some time:
The export of the dictionnary to OWL was a (succesful) attempt but Protege is too slow in
its multi-users mode to share the dictionnary.
We are trying JSPWiki now.

I integrated the PoisonCentre Thesaurus with JSPWiki (the thesaurus application checks if
a file exist in the JSPWiki data directory with a name derived from the prefered english thesaurus
term Wikified!).
- - - - - - - - - - - -
I must say I am rather enthusiastic reading:
Still have to see how they could be exploited by plugins but I will dig in your documents!

May be some Interwiki definitions could be shortcuts for predefined augmentation of JSPWikiLinks:
[seealso:wasps] --> [|wasps|rel="see also" rev="see also"]

Have a nice day!


----- Original Message -----
From: Murray Altheim []
Subject: Re: Localization

> Christophe Dupriez wrote:
> > Beware that PageName is language dependent...
> Hi Christophe,
> Yes, I think we're all well aware of that issue, hence the idea
> of turning it into a property rather than a address. It is really
> a name, not an address, which is why there's long been a problem
> in the wiki community with WikiNames as identifiers. The many-to-
> many issue, etc.
> > Personnaly, I would view language as a "NameSpace" (very useful feature of
> JSPWiki).
> Yes, certainly.
> > What is interesting is that navigation betweend linguistic versions shows
> interesting features that would be useful for general page interlinking.
> > 
> > When one page is said to be a "translation" of another, then the reversal
> could be judged to be automatically true (not in all applications but in
> "Wikipedia like" applications).
> > It is like a "see also" relation: when A-->see also-->B, most applications
> automatically generate B-->see also-->A (commutativity)
> > 
> > Futhermore, one could see transitivity as a need: if A is a translation of
> B and B is a translation of C, then A is a translation of C.
> > 
> > One could imagine to extend existing functionnalities like
> "ReferringPages" to add "ReferredToPages" but this has to be constrained to
> one link TYPE (like "translation" or "see also": TYPE does not exist in a
> regular Wiki ! Help Makna ?). I am wondering if the very useful "InterWiki"
> links could not be used to specify a link TYPE.
> > 
> > We could then have:
> > 
> > Page "En.Bees" containing " ... [translated:Fr.Abeilles] ...
> [seealso:En.Wasps] ... "
> > Page "Fr.Abeilles" containing " ... [translated:Pl.Pszczoła] ... "
> > 
> > Then most plugins working on relations could take into account a link
> TYPE. An a special plugin could list transitive relations of a given type
> and/or automatically consider a relation as being reflexive.
> > 
> > Page "En.Bees" could then list the translations "Fr.Abeilles" and
> "Pl.Pszczoła" and the "see also" En.Wasps
> > Page "En.Wasps" could then list the "see also" En.Bees
> > Page "Fr.Abeilles"  could then list the translations "En.Bees" and
> "Pl.Pszczoła"
> > Page "Pl.Pszczoła"  could then list the translations "En.Bees" and
> "Fr.Abeilles"
> > 
> > I have a very big dictionnary of litterary devices (about 8 thousands of
> them: that I converted to OWL but that I
> want to put in JSPWiki. As JSPWiki is, I think it will fit (I was first
> envisaging Makna) but with Relation TYPES it could be better...
> > I document the export/import process (as it goes) for this:
> I would strongly recommend not using OWL for this, as it is based on
> a mathematical model that is completely unsuitable for relations of
> natural language (i.e., OWL is based on Description Logics, which are
> a function of logic, not linguistics). A more suitable ontology for
> relating terms is the one designed specifically for that purpose,
> z39.19, the standard for thesauri. There you'll find the relationship
> types you're looking for, and the z39.19 relations are supported by
> a variety of open source and commercial software.
> For example, the core (upper) ontology of my JSPWiki extensions are
> largely based on z39.19 relation types, e.g., with a subject-predicate
> -object model:
>     [{Assert [WikiPage1] [IsBroaderThan] [WikiPage2] }]
> And yes, this is a means by which I am doing typed linking between
> pages.
>  From your examples above I'm rather guessing you may be familiar with
> z39.19 already, but I thought I'd mention it. See also:
>     ANSI/NISO Z39.19 -2005 Guidelines for the Construction, Format,
>     and Management of Monolingual Controlled Vocabularies
>     Z39.19 PDF Download
> (PDF)
> There's also a standard for multilingual thesauri but it's really
> not necessary for my purposes.
> Murray
> ...........................................................................
> Murray Altheim <murray07 at>                           ===  = =
>                                     = =  ===
> SGML Grease Monkey, Banjo Player, Wantanabe Zen Monk               = =  = =
>        Boundless wind and moon - the eye within eyes,
>        Inexhaustible heaven and earth - the light beyond light,
>        The willow dark, the flower bright - ten thousand houses,
>        Knock at any door - there's one who will respond.
>                                        -- The Blue Cliff Record

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