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From Michael Gerzabek <>
Subject Re: JSPWiki & Apache Incubation?
Date Tue, 03 Jan 2012 08:42:05 GMT

as I put in my previous mail, it's more about the agendas - the implicit
and explicit ones - than a  question about failure. I don't see that
incubation failed! There are just to many people out there that do
interesting things with the software OUTSIDE the JSPWiki repository. And
let me ask those folks:

Why are you doing this? Why do you fork JSPWiki? What value do you see
in this? What does it help you achieve? And what direction would the
trunk of JSPWiki need to evolve, that you would be willing to contribute
and have the value that you want to get out of JSPWiki?

Anyway. The main task I see is this: Get people back on the train. How
to approach? Interestingly the steps are similar to the ones Janne

1.) Radically declare the JSPWIKI_2_8_BRANCH as release. This one does
have awesome features and is time tested. Future visions should be based
on that version.

2.) Prepare the necessary reports. This is where I would be willing to
learn what's necessary to do if someone is willing to point me in the
right direction.

3.) Start a discussion about future ideas and steps.

JSPWiki, the one before 3.0.0, is a mature project. Why bother?

One thought about the host. OS is always about people. And it doesn't
matter if the repo is on GitHub, sourceforge or somewhere else. Sure.
But wait a minute. It does matter!

The Apache umbrella brings a widely accepted reputation and has a huge
user group in the Java world. This all ships for a rather small price -
the reports. Compare this to the usual GitHub projects. Many of them are
one-man-shows. The recognition is always just the project alone. No
umbrella. No synergies. So I strongly argue to do the incubation and use
the benefits of beeing a TLP Apache project.

just my two cents,

Am 02/01/2012 23:45, schrieb Christophe Dupriez:
> Dear Janne and core JSPWiki committers,
> What is the sustainable structure where YOU would still have the
> energy to be involved ?
> What would be the goal YOU would pursue?
> Most of us have their own agenda: the weight of managing a community
> is bearable only if enough agendas have many things in common...
> For me, 2.8.4 is a nice base: I modify it for CK support and
> integration with terminology management and other "details"
> (example:
> )
> Your leadership is essential: please do what you can bear.
> What would be nice is to make a "gallery" of our best "forks" to
> eventually decide what we put in common in the future.
> Good night!
> Christophe
> Le 2/01/2012 22:50, Janne Jalkanen a écrit :
>> Folks,
>> it seems that we haven't been able to produce an Apache-ready version
>> of JSPWiki for over three (four?) years now. 3.0 was obviously too
>> complex to deliver, and it's still badly broken. It would need a lot
>> of work to refactor into a state where it would actually be usable,
>> and I don't know whether anyone has the time to do it.  So far it
>> seems that we're not getting a whole lot of new contributors.
>> So what I'm proposing is fairly radical: let's forget about Apache
>> and move over to GitHub. GitHub's contribution model is simpler (pull
>> requests are easier to create and handle than patches on JIRA
>> tickets), and we don't have to worry about preparing governance
>> reports and that sort of stuff.
>> The point of Apache Incubation is to incubate a community of people
>> who can create good software. So far our community seems to be
>> dwindling more than increasing (and I accept the blame for that - I
>> just haven't had the time nor the interest to put into this project).
>> So I don't think it's wrong to say that our incubation has
>> essentially failed, and that we should consider some other avenue,
>> and go away from messing up the Apache Incubator.
>> Of course, now is the time for people to step up and say that "yes, I
>> am willing to take charge and turn JSPWiki into a good Apache Top
>> Level project." :-D I would welcome such people, but I know I don't
>> have it in me anymore.
>> /Janne

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