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From Janne Jalkanen <Janne.Jalka...@ecyrd.com>
Subject Re: author-tags Was: Trunk is now open for 2.8 stuff.
Date Mon, 31 Mar 2008 18:58:55 GMT

But again, how to treat patch contributions?  Whoever applies the  
patch decides whether to take in the @author-tags?  Where do we draw  
a line if someone sends on a three-line patch, one of which is the  
@author?

Apache is a high-profile society, and people will want to have their  
name associated with it.

/Janne

On 31 Mar 2008, at 21:33, Andrew Jaquith wrote:
> Folks,
>
> The changes we're talking about beg the question: "what's the  
> problem we are trying to solve?"
>
> In an earlier e-mail, I noted that the "we need to do what Apache  
> does" argument is bogus because Apache projects DO use @author  
> tags... or putting it another way, they don't remove them  
> consistently. I'm happy to furnish dozens, if not hundreds, of  
> examples of @author tags in the Tomcat  project if you need further  
> convincing.
>
> Equally bogus is the "the authors might get sued if we leave them  
> in" argument, because it ignores the reality of how modern e- 
> discovery is done. There are lots of ways to find people to sue,  
> for example trolling through the jspwiki-dev mailing list.
>
> The "we are a community so we have to release community projects  
> without attribution" reason is NOT bogus, but it IS mighty  
> presumptive. I joined the JSPWiki dev team to have fun and make a  
> personal difference, not because I wanted to be part of Apache PER  
> SE (though I like that too).
>
> Here's the bottom line. There are two geniune, defensible reasons  
> for keeping @author tags in the code:
> - Personal attribution/pride
> - Helping to establish expertise ("archaeology") for fixes, in  
> combination with commit tags
>
> There are also two geniune, defensible reasons to remove them:
> - When lineage of authorship is diffuse, or uncertain
> - When an author does not want to attract unwanted e-mails about  
> the code
>
> I seems to me that these reasons all point to personal decisions,  
> and should be made at time of commit. So I agree with Harry. I  
> don't think this is something we should legislate. The list of  
> authors is quite small, and the committers even smaller. It seems  
> to me a laissez-faire policy would work best.
>
> Andrew
>
> On Mar 31, 2008, at 2:00 PM, Dave Wolf wrote:
>> IMHO, if the rest of Apache projects don't use the author tags  
>> (whether it
>> is enforced or not), then for consistency we shouldn't either. It  
>> would be
>> confusing to new folks.
>>
>> Additionally, (again opinion) an open source project should not be  
>> tied to
>> individuals, so I agree with Janne that questions should go to the  
>> lists. If
>> someone who has knowledge is still active then they can respond.  
>> If the
>> author / knowledgeable person is no longer active, then the  
>> absence of a
>> response might be informative to the wider community.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 11:50 AM, Harry Metske  
>> <harry.metske@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I think we shouldn't dictate right now, how to deal with those  
>>> conflicting
>>> situations.
>>> Is it very likely to occur ?
>>> If it's not strictly necessary to make the choice now, I think we  
>>> should
>>> let
>>> it free.
>>>
>>> But if anyone else on the list has a good reason to choose for an  
>>> all-on
>>> or
>>> all-off, please speak up.
>>>
>>> regards,
>>> Harry
>>>
>>> 2008/3/31, Janne Jalkanen <Janne.Jalkanen@ecyrd.com>:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Then what do we do with new people if some of them insist to  
>>>> have the
>>>> @author tag and some don't?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> /Janne
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 31 Mar 2008, at 19:58, Harry Metske wrote:
>>>>> Although I'm not a committer I'd like to comment :
>>>>> I think both of you are right, there is code that is submitted
>>>>> initially
>>>>> fairly complete, and is not patched much afterwards, and if it is
>>>>> patched,
>>>>> it is only small bug fixes. In those cases you would want to  
>>>>> keep the
>>>>> @author tags.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the other hand there is code that is initially submitted as a
>>>>> simple
>>>>> first prototype, and is afterwards greatly enhance by others. In
>>>>> those cases
>>>>> you should remove the @author tags.
>>>>>
>>>>> If it is not exactly mandated by ASF how to deal with, let  
>>>>> everyone
>>>>> decide
>>>>> for himself how to handle it, and you don't have to handle every
>>>>> piece of
>>>>> code the same, for some pieces keep your @author tag, for others
>>>>> remove them
>>>>> ?
>>>>>
>>>>> How about that, everybody happy ?
>>>>>
>>>>> regards,
>>>>> Harry
>>>>>
>>>>> 2008/3/31, Janne Jalkanen <Janne.Jalkanen@ecyrd.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Case in point: The author of LuceneSearchProvider has not
>>>>>>>> contributed anything in what, two years?  Yet he still  
>>>>>>>> stands in
>>>>>>>> as the @author.  Would you go to him to ask for help, or
should
>>>>>>>> you go to the mailing list?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd ask the list, but I would likewise *know* that the author
 
>>>>>>> hasn't
>>>>>>> been seen for two years, information that would be lost if the
>>>>>>> tag had
>>>>>>> been removed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The @author tag does not encode that information.  Therefore,  
>>>>>> nothing
>>>>>> would be lost, if it were removed (and it might probably be a  
>>>>>> good
>>>>>> idea to remove it at that stage).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The code should really stand on its own legs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You're saying you have your name on code you don't understand?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes.  Other people have modified code for which I am still the
>>>>>> @author, and I can't really claim that I know what that code does
>>>>>> anymore...  And I'm pretty sure I have modified a lot of the code
>>>>>> that other people claim to be @author of, and they no longer  
>>>>>> have any
>>>>>> idea what is going on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's how it goes with projects that have been running for  
>>>>>> nearly
>>>>>> seven years now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> /Janne
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> met vriendelijke groet,
>>>>> Harry Metske
>>>>> Telnr. +31-548-512395
>>>>> Mobile +31-6-51898081
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> met vriendelijke groet,
>>> Harry Metske
>>> Telnr. +31-548-512395
>>> Mobile +31-6-51898081
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Dave Wolf
>> H: 303-377-9537
>> M: 303-956-9106
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsMumUEPMCY Donate to VoteVets
>>
>> "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that  
>> matter."
>> --Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.


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