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From Andy Seaborne <>
Subject Re: Incubator PMC/Board report for August 2011 (
Date Sun, 07 Aug 2011 16:52:27 GMT

On 07/08/11 10:14, Dave Reynolds wrote:
> On Sat, 2011-08-06 at 23:14 +0100, Ross Gardler wrote:
>> On 6 August 2011 18:33, Andy Seaborne<>  wrote:
>>> Added to the report on a the wiki:
>>> A mentor : could you check and sign off please.
>> Given that the project has been in incubation for ten months now I, as
>> a mentor, find it quite concerning that there is still no Apache
>> hosted site, that lists are only now starting to be migrated (and even
>> then only with a note in the footer).
> The developers list has been migrated completely for some time.
> Migration of end user support list has been encouraged by list-wide
> postings with a periodic reminder, not just the footer.
> However perhaps we should set some sort of a switch off time. The apache
> lists have usability issues compared to YahooGroups so leaving people
> the option to stay with the YahooGroup for now probably does slow down
> migration.
> Dave


The developer community is completely up and running on Apache and JIRA 
is active.

The website is in staging:
for comments and contributions.

A temporary one is in place so people find something at the correct place:

   Only LARQ has an Apache build process.

Is your concern really the wording of the report?

How about:

The project uses the Apache-based developer list exclusively and is now 
encouraging users to use the Apache-hosted user mailing list by regular 
reminder and an automatically added a trailer on all messages on the old 
user list.

Jena has been running for over 10 years now.  The user community is 
important. Why is an active (old) mailing list bad and how does 
discouraging the the user list on Yahoo help the project?
It may be useful to move development first to the official lists 
followed *gradually* by the user resources.

Note that subscribers of external mailing lists will not be 
automatically subscribed to the new Incubator project mailing lists. 
Instead, a note should be posted to the old external mailing list asking 
them to subscribe to the new list. If possible, add a footer to the old 
mailing list with some instructions.
(my emphasis)

The HP signoff was in May.  We agreed to more actively promote Apache 
user lists when we had actually filed the software grant with Apache so 
were certain nothing would change.

The issue remains - there are many places referring to jena-dev@yahoo 
and we are not able to control them, including previous versions of the 
software.  For example, the university cycle shows that Jena is being 
used in course work and it appears that the course notes point to 

May to August counts:

Jena-dev@yahoo     256  141  112 21
jena-users@apache  254  115  92  19
jena-dev@apache    144  188  55  63

Henri Yandell gave an opinion:
 > "Check and make sure that the papers that transfer rights to the ASF
 > been received. It is only necessary to transfer rights for the
 > package, the core code, and any new code produced by the project. "
 > I view this as the first item that a podling should be dealing with,
 > along with setting up the committers and getting that first codebase
 > in. By comparison, a website is a nice to have and community is just
 > icing.


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