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From Dan Haywood <>
Subject Re: IRC chat log with Ruudjah on 30 Jun 2011
Date Sun, 03 Jul 2011 18:28:34 GMT
Hi Nour,
Thanks for fielding this... I must admit I'm hardly ever on our IRC 
channel.  Maybe as our community grows.

Anyway, below I've pasted in your transcript, and I've responded with 
some inline comments.


(09:09:23 PM) mnour: Ruudjah: Hi
(09:09:33 PM) mnour: welcome on Apache Isis IRC channel :)
(09:59:29 PM) Ruudjah: hi
(10:00:25 PM) Ruudjah: naked object pattern always assumes ui will be 
(10:00:44 PM) Ruudjah: Is there a synergy beteen isis and EMF (Eclipse 
model framework)?

Dan: the NOF framework predated EMF, and also in the early days we 
wanted NOF to be cross-platform (.NET and also Java).  So, although we 
did look at EMF, it didn't do anything that we hadn't already developed 
for ourselves.

(10:03:31 PM) Ruudjah: central to emf is the metamodel; a model to 
describe models
(10:03:36 PM) mnour: and for Isis, yes it is more for applications using 
a GUI to interact with
(10:03:45 PM) mnour: in that regard yes
(10:04:32 PM) mnour: Isis uses a metamodel to describe what 
features/facets you defined on ur model besides the model itself which 
can be written in Java or Groovy
(10:04:34 PM) Ruudjah: As I assume isis will have a metamodel too

Dan: indeed it does.

(10:06:06 PM) mnour: can u describe the problem u have
(10:06:08 PM) Ruudjah: which is wiki assisted coding
(10:06:31 PM) Ruudjah: I have an icon and a wiki page for every 
(10:06:49 PM) Ruudjah: also
(10:07:06 PM) Ruudjah: I have a description and title string getters for 
every class/aClass/interface
(10:07:42 PM) Ruudjah: the description comes from a wiki page (of the 
(10:08:35 PM) Ruudjah: So when I have a class implementing an interface 
whch in turn inherits from the Meta interface (with 
title/description/icon etc getters)
(10:08:57 PM) Ruudjah: the generated java model code class needs to have 
this interface autoimplemented
(10:09:10 PM) Ruudjah: thats basically the problem i have

Dan: we aim to avoid that sort of coupling: of requiring that classes 
implement specific interfaces.  We do this by wrapping each domain 
object in an adapter (ObjectAdapter).

(10:11:42 PM) Ruudjah: EMF natively supports code generation extension
(10:12:04 PM) Ruudjah: meaning I can extend emf to implement the meta 
impls for me
(10:12:25 PM) Ruudjah: Im not sure about code generation in isis
(10:12:42 PM) mnour: thats why I am asking you to send ur question over 
the mailing list :D
(10:12:51 PM) Ruudjah: mainly about two-way code generation
(10:13:10 PM) Ruudjah: e.g. generate a class, edit class manually, then 
regenerate code without touching manual stuff

Dan: Isis is definitely *not* about code generation.  Everything is done 
at runtime.  So if you are looking for a code-gen solution, then Isis 
isn't for you.

(10:13:39 PM) Ruudjah: does isis support gwt?

Dan: a GWT-based viewer has been developed (by one of our committers) 
but it was closed source.   It's definitely doable.  If we did it again 
open source, I would push to use Vaadin instead, and hit the JSON 
protocol we have recently started to implement (see

On 03/07/2011 19:02, Mohammad Nour El-Din wrote:
> Hi...
>     Please find the attached text file of an IRC chat log happened
> between me and Ruudjah and he asked some questions mainly comparing
> between Apache Isis and EMF, I tried to answer as much as I know, and
> also encouraged him to send an e-mail on isis-dev@ but seems he
> didn't, I hope I am not the reason :D.
> But anyway, he has mentioned some good questions that I want to know
> the answer about and maybe we come out with some ideas from them.
> Looking forward to your feedback.

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