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From Stéphane Croisier <>
Subject Re: Why not using Lenya
Date Fri, 18 Mar 2005 09:53:51 GMT
At 23:47 17/03/2005, Michael Wechner wrote:
>>Concerning the JCR support, we want to maximize the abstraction on the 
>>repository. JCR is certainly a very nice spec but it is too low level 
>>API. I can't image to use the JCR object model (Node, Item & 
>>Property)  in some portlets, jsp pages, ... I prefer to use CMS objects 
>>like Folder, Forum, Thread, News, Article, ...
>you mean similar to Zope?

... and jumping on this idea, yes, I personally think it would great to 
have some kind of shared Visual Content Explorer (à la CRX 
- + Visual JCR170 Admin Center 
initiative on top of Jackrabbit. Quite similar to the Zope Content 
Management Framework.

Each CMS (including Jahia ;-) ) will need something like that on top of 
Jackrabbit. For example creating definitions on top of Jackrabbit is 
quite(too) complex for a CMS user/integrator and you need some kind of 
abstract management layer in-between. So we have the choice to try to 
centralize these "back-end" tools (in opposite to the front-end CMS views, 
navigations, edition mechanisms, etc.. which are of course specifc to each 
CMS/Portal system) or to each independently reinvent the wheel...

Zope has a centralized Core system (= Jackrabbit), a shared Content 
Management Framework (= Apache ???) and several "finished" CMS products 
such as Plone, Icoya, Silva,...(= Lenya, Graffito, Magnolia, Jahia,...). 
Why not doing the same and taking the JSR170 opportunity to do in Java what 
Zope already did in Python?

>>Anyway, it is a common question for the ASF. Why Trapestry, Struts, 
>>Turbine, Cocoon. Is it not the same stuff to make web apps  :-) ?
>Well, I think in most cases there is not just one way of doing things and 
>Apache allows
>various ways and I think this is good. It might be seen as a waste of 
>resources, but
>I think it's more a question of finding the right balance.

Yes but this also creates much confusion for end-users (cf. the recent 
OSCOM thread: 
). Then is the ASF only a Java SourceForge which host all java based 
initatives. I do not think so. There are not 10 different Apache httpd 
projects. Apache is about providing good, well maintained back-end 
librarires each of them powered by a strong community. So there are already 
Slide, Lenya, Jackrabbit and now Graffito... Jackrabbit still has issues 
gathering a community large enough to exit the incubator status. Do you 
think Graffito has then a real chance? So perhaps time to try to 
consolidate a bit at least for the back-end tools, no?


>>Regards, Christophe
>>Here is the Graffito architecture :
>>Graffito clients :
>>  JSR 168  Portlets   - Web apps - EJB's - Spring components - ...
>>               ^                                   ^
>>               |                                   | 
>>               |                                   | 
>>Graffito Container (Spring)
>>1. Application domain components
>>         GraffitoForum             GraffitoNewsManagement
>>              GraffitoBrowser
>>                     GraffitoKM         CustomApplication 
>>    GraffitoDocManagement
>>2.   Services
>>         Security  Workflow   Model  Search  Version 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>3. Persistence Service
>>   (= virtual content tree which groups together different kind of 
>> content store)
>>   There is a pluging for each type of content repository
>>   We have a "propriatary store" based on OJB and we want to build one 
>> for JCR
>>     OJB plugin         Webdav plugin         JCR 
>> plugin            Propriatary plugin
>>  ---------            ---------                --------
>>   Repo1               Repo 2                    Repo3
>>  --------             ---------                 -------
>Michael Wechner
>Wyona Inc.  -   Open Source Content Management   -   Apache Lenya

- -- --- -----=[ scroisier2 at jahia dot com ]=---- --- -- - : A Collaborative Source CMS and Portal Server 

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