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From "LOMBART Christophe" <Christophe.LOMB...@sword-technologies.com>
Subject RE: Why not using Lenya
Date Fri, 18 Mar 2005 14:55:20 GMT



-----Original Message-----
From:	St├ęphane Croisier [mailto:scroisier2@jahia.com]
Sent:	Fri 3/18/2005 2:40 PM
To:	graffito-dev@incubator.apache.org
Cc:	
Subject:	RE: Why not using Lenya
At 13:15 18/03/2005, you wrote:


>And is it better to reinvent the wheel? 
>The JCR will perhaps be a 
>success... or not. It does not really matter. In all cases, it looks like 
>the Jackrabbit implementation is nice and well coded. So at least you avoid 
>recoding the core kernel of a CMS (and perhaps you do not need to use all 
>the features provided by Jackrabbit)...

I don't speak about reinventing the wheel. We will also supporting JCR. The more I understand
the spec, the more I found this API is good But abstraction is a key word when building an
application. Are you not agree ?
Based a CMS framework on only one spec which is not yet mature and not well used is dangerous.
Are you not agree ? 

Let's speak about the J2EE spec. IMO, EJB fails. It was defined like a great technology 5/10
ago and now we are all agree that Hibernate, OJB, Spring... are better. 

>Furthermore if, at least Day, Lenya, Magnolia and Jahia integrates 
>Jackrabbit into their own product offering, this should lead to a quite 
>well maintained kernel library (ok, I agree you need to like Swiss citizens 
>as all these initatives are Swiss ;-) ... I always wanted to know why there 
>are so much interest in Switzerland for CMS and not in other countries ;-) )

ok but I prefer the Luxembourg area :-)

>Graffito is not a finished CMS product. It can be use like this but this 
>is not mandatory.It is really a component/framework based solution.
>If I understand your point of view, Graffito can be the shared management 
>framework and we will see later if this kind of initiative it interesting 
>for the Java/open source community.
>That's the same for Jetspeed 2, almost all Jetspeed services can be 
>running outside j2. Eg. : I can use the J2 security stuff with Graffito 
>outside J2.

>What I mean is that currently there is not this man-in-the-middle in 
>portals.apache.org (and perhaps one day cms.apache.org).

Wait and we will see. I think you are welcome to contribute ideas and codes. :-)

Michi wrote:
>The idea of Lenya is to offer a CM Framework by enhancing Cocoon by CM
>componets, but also a CMS "nearly out of the box"

Same idea here in Graffito :-) I think we have the same vision. 
I have only one issue with Leyna. It is focusing only on Cocoon.



>In the middle/long run, I do not think this will ease code reuse or code 
>sharing among "products". As there is no defined framework project, the 
>final product will always influence the choices for the entire framework. 

No agree :-)



>So that's why I think the Zope organisational structure is not so bad. It 
>clearly allow ressources gathering on the Portal or CMS Frameworks layer 
>and let up to other free or commercial projects to make the glue + GUI  + 
>etc...

I think it is more complex like that. That doesn't change the problem. 
Imagine you are using CPS and decide to move to Plone. You will have a great job to do migrate
to Plone. Both products are CMS apps based on Zope

Zope is a complex framework with too many components.


Have a good week-end,
at least, Graffito is a nice place to discuss on CMS - no ? :-)

Christophe




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