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From Dave Fisher <wave4d...@comcast.net>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking
Date Tue, 13 Aug 2019 14:43:43 GMT


Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 13, 2019, at 2:39 AM, Justin Mclean <justin@classsoftware.com> wrote:
> 
> HI,
> 
> I think there's a couple of misconceptions in this thread. First off currently you can
join the IPMC two ways by being an ASF member and asking to join, the other by being voted
in. On average the people being voted in tend to not go missing, review releases and sign
off board reports more frequently.
> 
> This has come up on list the list before and some (ex)board members have suggested that
the IPMC shouldn’t;t allow people to be added this way.
> 
> The suggestion here isn’t to be exclusionary, in fact we now allow people who have
experience in incubator to ask if they can join, as it often hard for the IPMC to recognise
merit, but they still need to be voted in. [1] When a project graduates I go though the PMC
list and see if there are any likely IPMC candidates and contact them to see if they are interested,
you’ll notice that more people have been voted in in recent times. In another thread I’ve
gone one step further and suggested that mentors look out for people on their projects list
who are release managers and vote on releases and suggest they be voted in as IPMC members.
[2] (Option D). I agree the bar should be low.
> 
> I do find it strange that we would allow people from a privileged group to auto join,
when they possibly may not have shown merit and/or have not being involved in the incubator
or an incubating project before. Obviously this doesn’t apply to all ASF members that ask
join the incubator, but I can point to examples where this has given rise to serious issues.
We’ve even had the occasional mentor who has never sent an email to their podlings list,
never voted on a release and never signed off a board report.

This is a different problem. I’ve seen nonmember mentors who were voted in who never really
do anything. Let’s face it life intrudes in one way or another. One hopes that such mentors
will resign, but they usually fade away.

Let’s focus on service to podlings and try to replace mentors who for whatever reason cannot
help.

Following through with your proposal creates an IPMC that is not fully trusting the Membership.
The membership of The ASF is the Foundation. These people have attained merit.

> 
> I don’t mind if their's not consensus on this and letting this stay. There may be better
ways to make sure mentors who sign up do their job and make mentors are more engaged. Please
post your suggestions to this list for discussion.

I reject the use of the verb “make” for this problem. We should “help” mentors and
podling communities “be” more engaged. We should “help” podlings and mentors when
Incubation is not working.

Mentoring is voluntary. So is Membership.

We need to have strong Champions who know how to bring willing and able podlings and mentors
into the Incubator.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> Thanks,
> Justin
> 
> 1. https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9ee3860bc9066ba682484542d34976ab21d9b62106f26a96f19d997f@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
> 2.https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/8c6e12bb040856dddb5d9b7b4821739e441455f3c61c6e469eb98f81@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
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