From general-return-69797-archive-asf-public=cust-asf.ponee.io@incubator.apache.org Wed Jun 19 15:25:26 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Delivered-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [207.244.88.153]) by mx-eu-01.ponee.io (Postfix) with SMTP id 9A9E818060F for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2019 17:25:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: (qmail 61404 invoked by uid 500); 19 Jun 2019 15:25:24 -0000 Mailing-List: contact general-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list general@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 61392 invoked by uid 99); 19 Jun 2019 15:25:24 -0000 Received: from pnap-us-west-generic-nat.apache.org (HELO spamd1-us-west.apache.org) (209.188.14.142) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Wed, 19 Jun 2019 15:25:24 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spamd1-us-west.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at spamd1-us-west.apache.org) with ESMTP id DC655C1883 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2019 15:25:23 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at spamd1-us-west.apache.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.399 tagged_above=-999 required=6.31 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, JMQ_SPF_NEUTRAL=0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=disabled Authentication-Results: spamd1-us-west.apache.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=comcast.net Received: from mx1-lw-eu.apache.org ([10.40.0.8]) by localhost (spamd1-us-west.apache.org [10.40.0.7]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yj-WuZ2XPdgK for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2019 15:25:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from resqmta-po-01v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-01v.sys.comcast.net [96.114.154.160]) by mx1-lw-eu.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mx1-lw-eu.apache.org) with ESMTPS id 43B1960D52 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2019 15:25:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from resomta-po-13v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.237]) by resqmta-po-01v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id dcN2hFbX89Ij8dcSYhxRo7; Wed, 19 Jun 2019 15:25:14 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=20190202a; t=1560957914; bh=kHS6/2BrhEWYNFrUvoulOnkWYGWZPNKcWWwkyOCusHk=; h=Received:Received:From:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:To: Message-Id; b=NKxxlisRm4kD1fZQFkI7Jbmdwnsqsi1dlV/XGVy84k6Hyqv9mqSji8Lx6Ts6W4Z3x ZHERylRIOCXCdki81xd8LtDSey/WOSRjmWe29UdLjZXlQIJmxjpMfPG5b1lmAcugyK s7hoAXnJ6f2Q7SHToLOegW0EtlrIxB8EuzVK5dzKVx3M0AyoYgeHkO989xONP1ptTx 1q0q25Cd2Pt8hETOYfy+iTwU7xp+dXo3RDcihlPKauXqtCB180jkojYIjlp9229Jos +apEiBaH4GD5WWIJCvdfOxbO96748HFPrfnamIkWmFGRMxWYRL2sKtBL1yqLW/iTdQ WMeOZE5qEcfoA== Received: from [IPv6:2601:649:280:19bf:68f0:690:332b:e6df] ([IPv6:2601:649:280:19bf:68f0:690:332b:e6df]) by resomta-po-13v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id dcSXhftJjMBm8dcSYhxpzc; Wed, 19 Jun 2019 15:25:14 +0000 X-Xfinity-VMeta: sc=0;st=legit From: Dave Fisher Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Subject: Re: overzealous bureaucracy (was: [VOTE] Zipkin leave incubator, return back to OpenZipkin) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 08:24:49 -0700 References: <7354321E-2E68-498E-A94E-57C2E5E6D5D4@classsoftware.com> <0B9192C1-541B-4D0F-9F6C-C76CDA4B1B89@gmail.com> To: general@incubator.apache.org In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Hi - I agree with Greg and Bertrand to focusing on the Incubator's service = orientation. And have written in other threads that we should update our = documentation. A podling exit needs to be visible to the Incubator here on general@. = (Jim=E2=80=99s clear trail) (1) In order to maintain a record about the podling and where it went. (2) To give visibility into how the podling code is moving. Suppose the = podling codebase and community were donated by organization A and the = community decided to move to organization B before all of the IP was = properly transferred out of A? I suggest that we use LAZY Consensus for podling retirement and an email = from a mentor should be prefixed with =E2=80=9C[EXIT]=E2=80=9D (or = ASFexit =E2=80=A6.) The email should explain the situation and provide the forwarding = address for updating podlings.xml and if the podling's repositories and = resources are to be marked (RO) and/or moved. Should the podling=E2=80=99s= current releases remain and for how long? We should rewrite the retirement guide so that it is clear that should a = podling decide to return to where they were then we guarantee no issues = from the Incubator. Generally we would support movement to another = place, but we can=E2=80=99t answer for all possible hypotheticals. Regards, Dave=20 > On Jun 19, 2019, at 6:30 AM, Myrle Krantz wrote: >=20 > An enthusiastic +1 from me, both for Bertrand's statement and Greg's > characterization of it. >=20 > : o), > Myrle >=20 > On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 2:55 PM Sheng Wu = wrote: >=20 >> +1 help/mentor/service >>=20 >> That is my only goal as mentor to ShardingSphere today. Provide >> experiences and helps as much as I could. >>=20 >> Sheng Wu >> Apache Skywalking, ShardingSphere, Zipkin >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> =E5=9C=A8 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8819=E6=97=A5=EF=BC=8C=E4=B8=8B=E5=8D=88= 7:13=EF=BC=8CGreg Stein =E5=86=99=E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A >>>=20 >>> On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 4:14 AM Bertrand Delacretaz < >>> bdelacretaz@codeconsult.ch > = wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Hi, >>>>=20 >>>> On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 8:13 AM Greg Stein = wrote: >>>>> ...Let's talk about the overzealous bureaucracy of the IPMC... >>>>=20 >>>> IMO something that can help fix that is declaring that the IPMC's = goal >>>> is to *provide services to podlings so they can become top-level = ASF >>>> Projects". >>>>=20 >>>> Currently, many things in the Incubator make it appear more like a >>>> *stern gatekeeper for entry to the ASF" - like this overzealous >>>> bureaucracy that you mention and that is often perceptible. >>>>=20 >>>> The difference is subtle but it can influence the IPMC's culture. >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Thank you, Bertrand! ... as always, you have a knack for looking at >> culture. >>>=20 >>> My commentary is usually rather ham-handed, but yes: what you = describe is >>> where I'd like to see the Incubator head. Stop the = gatekeeping/rules, and >>> focus on help/mentor/service. >>>=20 >>> Thanks, >>> -g >>=20 >>=20 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org