From general-return-69481-archive-asf-public=cust-asf.ponee.io@incubator.apache.org Sat Jun 1 03:55:37 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Delivered-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [207.244.88.153]) by mx-eu-01.ponee.io (Postfix) with SMTP id 0D38C180627 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2019 05:55:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: (qmail 68558 invoked by uid 500); 1 Jun 2019 03:55:33 -0000 Mailing-List: contact general-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list general@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 68544 invoked by uid 99); 1 Jun 2019 03:55:32 -0000 Received: from pnap-us-west-generic-nat.apache.org (HELO spamd2-us-west.apache.org) (209.188.14.142) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Sat, 01 Jun 2019 03:55:32 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spamd2-us-west.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at spamd2-us-west.apache.org) with ESMTP id DBEFD1A40AD for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2019 03:55:31 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at spamd2-us-west.apache.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.4 tagged_above=-999 required=6.31 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, JMQ_SPF_NEUTRAL=0.5, KAM_ASCII_DIVIDERS=0.8, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=disabled Authentication-Results: spamd2-us-west.apache.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=comcast.net Received: from mx1-lw-us.apache.org ([10.40.0.8]) by localhost (spamd2-us-west.apache.org [10.40.0.9]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YYWjRYwHZbWH for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2019 03:55:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from resqmta-po-03v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-03v.sys.comcast.net [96.114.154.162]) by mx1-lw-us.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mx1-lw-us.apache.org) with ESMTPS id 09D5D5F16F for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2019 03:55:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from resomta-po-10v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.234]) by resqmta-po-03v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id Wv5VhqdOQpf2NWv7Bhc1Rc; Sat, 01 Jun 2019 03:55:29 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=20190202a; t=1559361329; bh=aE7yXWtPH2/brjNdwQs6knr4Tp+PmULN7vPWa8QIDvc=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:Date: Message-Id:To; b=V7UB1G65G9hxk7RWSyeFJZZaWsv8x3Q87OoDnjoXwsa7DtBavFcjbv99RuGfVvnBw 37Oxjz08vXL5B1c0IYbW30aZaPd886nI5jdPCquplQg/NYFQfoCjf822sg1nZWpAmT nObUFrC0MctMFt89yLoIyIhlr0qGWbXjYSDLXAEqVMYSH1GLEMvwyEq8KsVvrr12L3 wL1/Cs3SMABsE7SpdMR5Yq52X3kuSDkLLZNQutKGyA/+WPoQ2yZyw8EGDfPM9pem24 baEG79j6Hxlzw+ciJHtlfzjkR+1c4wkoS3KiRFK56LD0TGonds5TLhoSE3u67f8wcZ kd0XOt1HPChug== Received: from [IPv6:2601:649:280:19bf:843d:b52a:dc64:596a] ([IPv6:2601:649:280:19bf:843d:b52a:dc64:596a]) by resomta-po-10v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id Wv77hrZxKOGz5Wv7AhpfDk; Sat, 01 Jun 2019 03:55:29 +0000 X-Xfinity-VMeta: sc=-100;st=legit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: Podling releases and release policy From: Dave Fisher X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16E227) In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 31 May 2019 20:55:25 -0700 Cc: Justin Mclean Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: general@incubator.apache.org Kevin and Justin, This is spot on. Disclaimer, signatures/checksums, Apache license, and a start to notes are t= he minimum. Acceptance of issues to fix is also a requirement. Full compliance with Apache Release and Distribution Policies are some of ou= r agreed Incubation requirements for graduation recommendation. Do we need to confirm all requirements or should we limit to this discussion= to Releases? Regards, Dave Sent from my iPhone > On May 31, 2019, at 8:45 PM, Kevin A. McGrail wrote:= >=20 > Hi Justin, >=20 > Before putting it to the board, have we ever had a IPMC vote on the > matter? I think the board wants to delegate because legally, there > isn't a chance in hell they are going to vote on it any way but > negatively because to me, they have no choice but to formally say no.=20 > This is a possible example of purposefully turning a blind eye because > it's hard for podlings to come up to speed. >=20 > So perhaps if we set an incubator policy of a podling release being a > little more lenient, the board would delegate because the legal issues > are about nil. It's like making a law where 20% of America is a > criminal. Is it really enforceable and especially without prejudicial > or preferential treatment?=20 >=20 > What I like to see from a podling is: acknowledgment of the issues, > tickets on the issues, and consistent improvement. >=20 > What we cannot see is: a podling NOT saying "incubating" in a release or > saying no, we will not fix these issues. >=20 > Perhaps we need a podling disclaimer for all podling releases that > explains more about what is a podlings and what is an incubating > release. Perhaps it can contain appropriate caveats that the release > may have issues that are being worked on that up to and including > licensing issues. Links to Jira as well would be good. Then if we > enforce tickets about known issues, we can both hold podlings > accountable and enlighten users about the risks. >=20 > I agree there are some examples where podlings are pushing our good > faith on not fixing issues. But there are others that are just > overwhelmed and we need to help more with the podlings where English is > a second language. Perhaps something to ask the new D&I committee to > assist with. Lots of discussion about overcoming language barriers of > late on board-chat too. >=20 > Regards, > KAM >> On 5/31/2019 11:28 PM, Justin Mclean wrote: >> Hi, >>=20 >> It been suggested a few times by several people on several lists that pod= ling releases (particularly early one=E2=80=99s) don=E2=80=99t need to compl= y with release and distribution policy even if they have serious issues. The= question has been asked to the board several times but we=E2=80=99ve never g= ot a clear answer (as the question is hypothetical) or the answer is no that= =E2=80=99s not allowed. The incubator does not set those policies, the board= and infra do. I=E2=80=99m going to ask the board to give us a clear answer o= n this to see if they are OK to grant an exception to those policies for pod= ling releases and if our current DISCLAIMER covers those sort of issues. >>=20 >> Anyone have anything to add or any objections to this before I ask them? >>=20 >> The serious issues I=E2=80=99m talking about here include compiled source= or inclusion of GPL (or other Category X) code in a source release or a Cat= egory X dependancy or include code that the podling doesn=E2=80=99t have per= mission to distribute i.e. the ones that people constantly vote -1 for. Las= t time I calculated the stats for 300+ released I found 1 in 5 podling relea= ses had a serious issue like this. >>=20 >> If the board (and infra) does say this is OK, podlings would still have t= o have releases that copy with policy on graduation, so this puts more respo= nsibility on the mentors and the projects themselves. Worse case the IPMC ma= y have to reject graduation of a project that hasn=E2=80=99t got its release= s in order. >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Justin >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org >>=20 >=20 > --=20 > Kevin A. McGrail > Member, Apache Software Foundation > Chair Emeritus Apache SpamAssassin Project > https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmcgrail - 703.798.0171 >=20 >=20 > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org >=20 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org