From general-return-67997-archive-asf-public=cust-asf.ponee.io@incubator.apache.org Sat Mar 2 11:55:18 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Delivered-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by mx-eu-01.ponee.io (Postfix) with SMTP id 4DC9018064A for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2019 12:55:17 +0100 (CET) Received: (qmail 5517 invoked by uid 500); 2 Mar 2019 11:55:15 -0000 Mailing-List: contact general-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list general@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 5505 invoked by uid 99); 2 Mar 2019 11:55:15 -0000 Received: from pnap-us-west-generic-nat.apache.org (HELO spamd4-us-west.apache.org) (209.188.14.142) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Sat, 02 Mar 2019 11:55:15 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spamd4-us-west.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at spamd4-us-west.apache.org) with ESMTP id BEC0CC22F7 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2019 11:55:14 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at spamd4-us-west.apache.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.799 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.799 tagged_above=-999 required=6.31 tests=[DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=disabled Authentication-Results: spamd4-us-west.apache.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mx1-lw-eu.apache.org ([10.40.0.8]) by localhost (spamd4-us-west.apache.org [10.40.0.11]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AfwHhPrbNeG4 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2019 11:55:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-it1-f172.google.com (mail-it1-f172.google.com [209.85.166.172]) by mx1-lw-eu.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mx1-lw-eu.apache.org) with ESMTPS id C58205F577 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2019 11:55:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-it1-f172.google.com with SMTP id m137so908033ita.0 for ; Sat, 02 Mar 2019 03:55:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=ySC76bELTB7ood3Yp8dxsfDITFNlpvgSbYkLrpHqgSU=; b=Id0IsmPEhFOnoHcGITLTfvOdv1iAeMteMW1r4L/B8vTtD/ygUR+PAYuVgDSdSXZITV d4WWHBZAByJcXol6PyzwxMllKDJGvh6VkIWX/EtvgEBa3MaoiDSyKEWbx3JIJW2qDTiC MZqpvEQn3Jvhx9zoL8BjtZZpF02IiUYubMs3RGqlpoIerxBdK9DHPuZ0Qxeg9H7iM3y6 5Q6ds8RO9d4MjYYUM9UKH7OYKUonKB4ci4fIUfUTBvvmqr7ALS/TxhRu22viB3G/U/7S wlJZBUU+7yRQ9SQpNiMDUn+01zgD594H68Yx6TtM7e0DETNbWFk9+QQQrZqzKY4y5znK MMdw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=ySC76bELTB7ood3Yp8dxsfDITFNlpvgSbYkLrpHqgSU=; b=eMQLCwzgFBFqjh1CjkD+BYIZ8xxwF3+vRUnIBP+b0DCAJGk5b83B2+XkfQ7w//WSrx JV+f39+pAtcCDaM5ll35kDpsLWdlb/Qi26dUtVtV6SaxgoS3UtYjzVe77cHDkgjEPuDf 3EwmwL7EBdHUqRVyzJ/GgqNRiOOSKcGItDvDbnGCFD8lXdxCVJ06w30Xud2oJtGpqyMK qETycBwa84F2mVyCcsqSE6xaQS1BYuRPnhxQOs2MkJo1xBRdLuga69a/TaACCCG6mWEH pe7dJE2Ihr6V89QhKasW3IVWRN0Yo7TiJ+0tSx+eDUIANzp9z9MMcc6x/uWqAUKixI0o nPLg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAW17xzGEF6GllCpuDSR1JMptOHoOIW7Zv5go7JPiVEmgV+Ixiqx Or8CBGKFaLDpiix0j/3XCCknb8wdO77c0ZPvmmqkNA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IaVf6hglAmu//9nJDyDKz6RNqPuzx23ix/WOfYCvlzqFWa5gAE7utjy7cn13vR+OSMVMkdKSyRpFNWttCoyJt8= X-Received: by 2002:a05:660c:30b:: with SMTP id u11mr5754047itj.67.1551527704637; Sat, 02 Mar 2019 03:55:04 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7142953F-9687-456C-AAC3-889EBC2F97DD@comcast.net> <9AF75EC6-87CA-40B6-8691-6B17B4B27163@classsoftware.com> <2C2E440E-1132-4C7C-9411-9C5C2EA14F19@classsoftware.com> <3E1DE2B5-42EA-446F-A37B-FDC9143AFB32@classsoftware.com> <19bae0a9-d75a-ee8f-397f-eaee4808ffba@apache.org> <2D2AAD2F-1AC4-4931-990E-76D8BCCA5B78@comcast.net> <50E35EDA-EBEF-4058-97EE-88CF2D9F5B36@gmail.com> <338133E2-1026-48C5-8355-709948B5DE31@classsoftware.com> In-Reply-To: From: Greg Stein Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2019 05:54:52 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Responsibilities and Improvements (was: Re: Whimsy general@ subs check (was: .... introduce "[DISCUSS]" threads for podling ... release candidates)) To: general@incubator.apache.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b1b9c805831b315b" --000000000000b1b9c805831b315b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sat, Mar 2, 2019 at 5:17 AM sebb wrote: > On Sat, 2 Mar 2019 at 10:49, Greg Stein wrote: > > > > On Sat, Mar 2, 2019 at 2:50 AM sebb wrote: > > > > > On Sat, 2 Mar 2019 at 03:45, Justin Mclean > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > I agree that it's not ideal but it is not a symptom of a big > problem > > > either. We have inactive IPMC members who might become active again > later > > > if a community wants to join the incubator but it's a hassle to leave > and > > > then join again. > > > > > > > > Some context, over 300 projects have gone through the incubator, 50 > are > > > there currently, each requires a champion and 3 mentors at the start > (all > > > IPMC members), even with some mentors working on multiple podling it's > not > > > surprising the IPMC is 300 people or so. Nor should it be that a large > > > number of them are inactive as most of the projects they were involved > in > > > have graduated (or retired). > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > But despite this some still think it is an issue so we IMO we should > > > address it, unless they change their minds, and say so here. > > > > > > Personally, I don't think that is a reason to reduce the IPMC count. > > > I think it needs to be established WHY it is thought to be an issue > first. > > > > > > > It encourages drive-by bikeshedding. "I'm an IPMC Member from a few years > > back. I see $foo, and OMG need to comment on it." > > > > Did anybody stop and read the concerns recently raised to the Board? Much > > of the focus on that email was about such drive-by commenting. > > > > Thus, reduce the opportunity for drive-by. > > Since the general@ list is public, I don't think reducing the IPMC > will stop comments. > So? It is to reduce the number of people who feel empowered to meddle into everything every podling does. You want to fix general@ ??, then go ahead. I want to see people who choose not to *participate* in the IPMC [by subscribing to private@] dropped from the roster. The whole world can chat on general@. But if you want to be *part* of the IPMC, and want a binding vote, and want to really throw-in on Incubator matters, then you damned well better subscribe. The basic structure of 200+ people all having "merit" to jump into a podling's pond is a priori broken. We have *specific* feedback that this is true. Not a guess. Not some survey. A "letter" signed by numerous individuals that this is the case. So until the Incubator decides its basic structure is Wrong(tm), and stops pushing back against that feedback, then what is a simple reversible change to try and disempower the knuckleheads who want to throw in, on the good work done by our podlings? ... Right. Trim the IPMC. -g --000000000000b1b9c805831b315b--