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From Ted Dunning <ted.dunn...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: A smaller IPMC
Date Sat, 09 Mar 2019 21:09:17 GMT
Woonsan,

I apologize for misreading your intent, but am glad my comment stimulated
you to express your opinions so well.



On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 2:48 PM Woonsan Ko <woonsan@apache.org> wrote:

> Hi Ted,
>
> Maybe I missed somethings totally, but I intended to express my
> preference about restructuring of IPMC, not PPMCs:
> - Keep only people as IPMC members who can really guide, recruit and
> review graduations based on their merits shown in the past in this
> specific community;
> - Keep active mentors as "mentors", like "committers" in other
> projects with no binding votes, but more focused on helping podlings
> with details and providing enough info and overview to IPMC.
> - No automatic IPMC membership for ASF members without voting based on
> their merit in this "incubation" community.
>
> There are concerns in detail, such as how to get 3+ votes in the
> releases of podlings that are not close to graduation if mentors don't
> have binding votes, how to recognize mentoring contributions from new
> faces, etc. Ideas in other threads flow here and there. If IPMC
> members are more focused on high-level guidances and reviews, it
> should work based on active mentors' helps. Anyway, the above is my
> personal preference. It seems fairer to me than today: when podlings
> get reviews, voting, and guidances from IPMC; when mentors work hard
> to get a podling graduated standing between a podling and IPMC; when a
> mentor is recognized and invited to IPMC by the incubation community
> for their mentoring contributions; when more dedicated IPMC members
> review and cast binding vote with more responsible feedbacks; when
> people watch, participate in the lists considering to help podlings in
> various ways possibly hoping to be a mentor (committer) someday.
>
> Regards,
>
> Woonsan
>
> On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 10:49 PM Ted Dunning <ted.dunning@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Woonsan
> >
> > I think that there may be some cross-talk between discussions. This
> latest
> > discussion was about the Ipmc ,not about the podling PMCs.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 6:27 PM Woonsan Ko <woonsan@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > > On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 6:33 PM Justin Mclean <justin@classsoftware.com
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > It’s been suggested that the IPMC is too large, what do other IPMC
> > > members think might be a way to address this?
> > > >
> > > > Please discuss and indicate +1 what you would think would help, you
> can
> > > vote for more than one.
> > > >
> > > > Some suggestions:
> > > > 1. Ask all inactive IPMC if they want to continue being on the IPMC
> and
> > > see who steps down. Being inactive they are probably not following this
> > > list so we need to identify and send each one email them personally.
> > > > 2. There were some questions around merit raised, remove all IPMC
> > > members who were not on the initial proposal and who were voted in.
> Those
> > > left on the IPMC vote back in those who are currently active.
> > > > 3. Get rid of all IPMC members, and vote (with ASF members vote being
> > > binding - not sure how else it could be done?) currently active ones
> back
> > > in.
> > > > 4. Do nothing as this is not actually a problem but instead address
> > > other underlying issues. e.g. lack of mentor engagement.
> > >
> > > +1 to my modified version from #2 (and 0 to the others as I don't
> > > think they will help a lot):
> > > "Remove all IPMC members who were not on the initial proposal and who
> > > were voted in. Those left on the IPMC vote for those, as members, who
> > > can recruit, guide mentors, and review podling graduations, and they
> > > also vote for those, as mentors (committers), who have ever been
> > > active mentors for podlings."
> > >
> > > Mentors are committers: if someone starts contributing in this
> > > community, they are to be recognized and invited to a mentor
> > > (committer) in this project; if they contribute more for the community
> > > consistently, they are to be invited to a IPMC member. In smaller
> > > IPMC, IPMC members focus more on helping/guiding mentors and reviewing
> > > graduations in various aspects, and mentors focus more on detail
> > > issues in podlings, providing enough overview and information to IPMC.
> > > I think this will make it a fairer merit-earning game, to new comers
> > > getting helps from mentors and (graduation and/or high-level) reviews
> > > from members, watchers considering to help, mentors eager to help
> > > graduations, more focused members, ...
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Also re point 2 do you think we should drop that ASF members can
> > > automatically get IPMC membership and change it to requiring a vote by
> the
> > > IPMC? It’s has always seem odd to me that this is the case. We’ve
> recently
> > > voted more people in that we’ve had requests from ASF members.
> > >
> > > +1 to always be voting, whether they are ASF members or not, like other
> > > PMCs.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Any other sugestions?
> > > >
> > > > Options 2 and 3 may cause some issues around mentors, but if they
> were
> > > not active then I guess it’s no big loss.
> > >
> > > My modified version includes all active people as mentors (committers)
> > > at least, so there's no loss as well.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Woonsan
> > >
> > > >
> > > > And any suggestions on level of activity? Such as:
> > > > - Emailed the list in the last year.
> > > > - Reviewed at least one release in that time.
> > > >
> > > > It’s already been determined that some (about 15%) of the less than
> > > active PMC members (out of the 100 odd that are not signed up to the
> IPMC
> > > private list) do help out infrequently but that help is very useful.
> That
> > > may also apply to other inactive IPMC members, so I would suggest the
> bar
> > > for what consider active be kept low.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Justin
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> > > >
> > >
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> > >
> > >
>
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