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From Lars Francke <lars.fran...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Establishing an ASF project for training
Date Mon, 17 Dec 2018 19:04:39 GMT
Julian,

One thing that came to my mind was to use some kind of "code based"
> generation for the slides, notebooks, brochures like Latex, Markdown,
> Asciidoc or else...
> I would not like to force users to use proprietary tools (PPT) to use the
> material.
> And furthermore, this would allow us to have some kind of style files
> which could be personalized for corps and which they could keep for each
> release.
> Another aspect is that it makes the whole versioning way easier as it is
> code and one can see all changes and stuff which is impossible for "binary"
> formats.
> I also think we have enough people here that would be able to easily do an
> automated resources documentation, so that we could always offer "compiled"
> material in pdf in default style or the possibility to do a custom build
> with custom styles.
>

That would be nice. And I've tried a whole bunch of systems and none of
them worked really well. Either you can't position elements nicely/easily
or you can't have a consistent CI etc. I think this is definitely a
discussion to be had when/if this "project" is established.


> And I think that the incubator would be a good place to start to see if
> here, as in all ASF projects, a community can be established and continuous
> effort is spend on the project. This would reduce the risk of a "zombie"
> project which is probably only really powered by one organization and lives
> and dies on their will.
>
> Julian
>
> Am 17.12.18, 14:37 schrieb "Rich Bowen" <rbowen@rcbowen.com>:
>
>     It's worth mentioning that there's a conversation going right now over
> on
>     the members@ list about creating a "central services" kind of entity.
> That
>     discussion is primarily focused on design/graphic kind of stuff, but
>     training/documentation/presentations are similar in concept, if not in
>     content, and I'm definitely in favor of such an entity existing.
>
>     Your anticipated question "Isn't the ASF all about code, now you want
> to do
>     PPT!" is very insightful. The ASF exists to provide services to
> projects,
>     and this is an unfilled need that many/most of our projects have.
> There is
>     precedent - we have an infrastructure organization, a conferences
> entity, a
>     marketing group, legal, brand, and so on, that provide non-code
> services to
>     projects. Recognizing contributors for non-code contributions is
> *critical*
>     for the survival of our projects, and of the Foundation as a whole,
> and we
>     tend to be very poor at it.
>
>     So, suffice it to say, a huge +1 to this concept, although I'm not sure
>     where it should live - whether under ComDev (as you suggest) or as a
>     top-level entity. I think the latter makes a little more sense. While
> this
>     is indeed a function of community development/growth/education, it's
> also
>     sufficiently different that it may need to be independent.
>
>     What are next steps? I don't *think* this is something that should go
>     through the Incubator. It's not a Thing Like That. Perhaps a proposal
> to
>     the Board to create a top-level thing? I'll put a pointer to this
> thread
>     into that other thread (referenced above), and apologies to those of
> you
>     who are not ASF Members and cannot see that thread.
>
>
>     On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 8:23 AM Lars Francke <lars.francke@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>     > Hi,
>     >
>     > I'd like to start a discussion around establishing a project (or
> Central
>     > Service) at the ASF to host and develop training and related
> materials for
>     > ASF (and possibly others, where it makes sense) projects.
>     >
>     > I'm a committer and contributor to a few projects and make money
> doing
>     > consulting work. Naturally people do contact us for training, and we
> have
>     > developed our own slideware etc. but we find it incredibly hard work
> to
>     > keep those up-to-date.
>     >
>     > We also work with lots of other companies and they all face the same
>     > challenges. At the same time, we do not believe that a slide-deck is
> worth
>     > that much on its own (others disagree, as we used to). We believe the
>     > instructor is the real selling-point and especially when that person
> is
>     > deeply embedded in the projects itself as a committer or PMC.
>     >
>     > So, we as a company[0] would like to donate our slide decks and other
>     > resources we have and establish an ASF wide training project in the
> hopes
>     > that we as a community can collaborate on those resources. We are
> currently
>     > talking to partners to assess whether they are interested in joining
> us in
>     > open sourcing their material.
>     >
>     > I'm not sure if this is a "Central Services" kind of thing or if it
> should
>     > be an Incubator project to begin with. I'm posting this here because
> I
>     > think there are good arguments for it being a project (e.g. it
> appears as a
>     > “project” in all lists that others can contribute to, it follows a
> familiar
>     > structure etc.). It might be a bit different than other projects
> though
>     > (e.g. maybe there are no real releases?).
>     >
>     > This is also not limited to just slides obviously but also
> accompanying
>     > code and potentially other media forms.
>     >
>     > One concern I have is that the material should be as objective as
> possible,
>     > but our clients especially value our (often subjective) input on the
>     > matureness of tools (third-party as well as ASF), processes and
>     > communities. So, we usually include that in our slides. I guess
> anyone
>     > using this material would need to customize it.
>     >
>     > This is how I see it but I'm happy to change based on feedback.
>     > In scope:
>     > * Develop shared material that can be used for trainings
>     > * Develop “labs” or “hands-on” exercises
>     > * Develop or document an infrastructure that can be used for those
> labs
>     > * Potentially develop tools to manage the material (e.g. ideally a
> slide
>     > repository that contains “modules” that can be easily reused and
> combined)
>     >
>     > Out of scope (for now at least)
>     > * Something like what the CNCF has with their “Kubernetes Training
>     > Program”[1] with certified training partners
>     > * Project documentation
>     >
>     > I wasn’t sure whether to start this discussion in members@ and/or
> here or
>     > somewhere else entirely. But as we believe it should be a “project”
> I think
>     > this is the best place for it. I’m happy to cross-post if you think
> it
>     > worthwhile.
>     >
>     > I'm looking forward to any and all feedback you might have on this.
> I would
>     > be happy to draw up a formal Incubator Proposal once we agree on a
> result
>     > and shape.
>     >
>     > Anticipated FAQs:
>     >
>     > Q: Shouldn’t each project take care of its own training?
>     > A: Yes and no. Ideally a project should be well documented but
> developing
>     > material for professional “training” is quite different from writing
>     > documentation in my experience. I think it's better to have a single
>     > central project doing this than having this as part of every project
>     > itself. One reason being that it makes sense to have cross-project
>     > trainings (e.g. no one is interested in an “Apache Hadoop” training.
> They
>     > all want to learn about the ecosystem).
>     >
>     > Q: Isn't the ASF all about code, now you want to do PPT!
>     > A: We’ve had committers for documentation for a long time and I’d
> actually
>     > like to see much more of that in the future. I think it’s not about
> the
>     > code but about merit. We have a lot of Apache Way presentations now
> (which
>     > could be part of this project) that go into depth on this one.
>     >
>     > Q: We have the Community project[2], should this not be part of that
>     > project?
>     > A: I honestly don’t know. There is definitely some overlap or
> alignment but
>     > from all I’ve seen and read I think these could very well be two
> distinct
>     > projects but “we” could follow a very similar structure and probably
> reuse
>     > some content and tools.
>     >
>     > Q: I don't like PPT/keynote/Apache OpenOffice/HTML slides/...
> everyone
>     > should do PechaKucha at all times.
>     > A: We are not set on any format for the content, finding a suitable
> format
>     > will be part of this project’s mission. To me this is a technical
>     > discussion like it happens a hundred times a day on the Apache Jira
> and
>     > Mailing Lists. There will be disagreement and some people will be
>     > disappointed by some of the choices made but that’s no different
> than any
>     > other project.
>     >
>     > Q: How can I integrate slides from this project to match my corporate
>     > design? I'm not allowed to not use CD.
>     > A: Another technical question (plus probably one that involves legal@)
> to
>     > which I do not yet have an answer.
>     >
>     > Thank you Bernd Fondermann, Sönke Liebau and Tim Robertson for the
> review
>     > of this mail.
>     >
>     > Cheers,
>     > Lars
>     >
>     > [0] <https://www.opencore.com/>
>     > [1] <https://www.cncf.io/certification/training/>
>     > [2] <https://community.apache.org/>
>     >
>
>
>

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