From general-return-64825-archive-asf-public=cust-asf.ponee.io@incubator.apache.org Mon Jun 18 22:01:11 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Delivered-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by mx-eu-01.ponee.io (Postfix) with SMTP id 07190180663 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 22:01:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: (qmail 58267 invoked by uid 500); 18 Jun 2018 20:01:09 -0000 Mailing-List: contact general-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list general@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 58255 invoked by uid 99); 18 Jun 2018 20:01:09 -0000 Received: from pnap-us-west-generic-nat.apache.org (HELO spamd1-us-west.apache.org) (209.188.14.142) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 20:01:09 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spamd1-us-west.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at spamd1-us-west.apache.org) with ESMTP id 9BA91C6E2B for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 20:01:08 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at spamd1-us-west.apache.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.869 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.869 tagged_above=-999 required=6.31 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01] autolearn=disabled Authentication-Results: spamd1-us-west.apache.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mx1-lw-us.apache.org ([10.40.0.8]) by localhost (spamd1-us-west.apache.org [10.40.0.7]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RJLX0fCyGWRe for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 20:01:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-it0-f53.google.com (mail-it0-f53.google.com [209.85.214.53]) by mx1-lw-us.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mx1-lw-us.apache.org) with ESMTPS id 7346A5F42F for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 20:01:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-it0-f53.google.com with SMTP id 76-v6so13857025itx.4 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 13:01:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=k1LxqbZBCL35pIMFb5lX447kKyOR2ktOV60I0wzlD/c=; b=uKog1WZmdaAtrXtCS2/0lKWJnIVweKcog+6GaBh4H29FaEPaBp6aey/3ySOHy8SZNf WukZWOGF9Ok2f/CGGj+f0BsiQ6a1bA0eNb0Oafoiufbx+QKqxSODaJYjp4QAFAZro9Lh Bo5tvi3ykBgABrYGLJQDdePvIhTD6djOa1upjci5vEcJU27KW7fwjkir6UFXMA4A/lhn 3hrB/Gk9eXNI9fnMol6sm64u2oURHSMmGckOmM7KBKHD+TcCl3Itsb4367wLFau0ifZa 7zfQ9SIxdHG4iyte8nwH6rTFE6QBcuDv1My02IolgFloOkkX0B5YWHGVges9lbamV4j9 tIKw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=k1LxqbZBCL35pIMFb5lX447kKyOR2ktOV60I0wzlD/c=; b=Y67dAYvWLXA+9O+bZcK3b1CQtPZJYKz8Ck9IVxhcGb0QuMEMYn/ja+uuJVh0enAqYK x2/KVxxZBNrLlOjfJFA7VwVi6R+W2mcVMGxX7rrFlBplZTW69N2QeDTuHVX/eOkRacmO 32Hp89MHLiiQLiUPq+JKktC65e0eQwVLW2uFdJH+2Tt8fUxaI5q3xsyn8gAVttoIaYXB eiCj2B/21HajHGEwm8QX7Y5ib26X4OJNB16P8ACyZhkFi7n9wc8aUCSnm9DiTCrxBypH Q+/kj6EmhcURX0Gk3S2fNnlUAKmV0rz9WVRflu1NPMa3BV+jmyUSIBky2fiDW2pTn81Z /qyw== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E2cCkGRq6pgcv93SjJ1kSZe60tQ2WJG0X6UMPmMdYR2vsncBlFX PM+Na2iMi6vwdRWAuiDuOJrjsWNMPz3YsIo5nW8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKLF/PH5VqEMMgJ0iYEpmPBqvYxLRqlXUCJXjRql5A5hTFSoR4An2xpindDgjMfA6BHVIEITmJg/ljy7WRUz0mQ= X-Received: by 2002:a24:4042:: with SMTP id n63-v6mr10452688ita.122.1529352066764; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 13:01:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <601A1D48-11BB-44AA-90ED-6ECBE03BF51E@comcast.net> <3728E926-1804-4A17-86CB-C94EE09E5075@apache.org> <3FEA8B25-A1E8-40BB-A835-8888153ADC2E@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: From: Greg Stein Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 15:00:53 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Looking for Champion To: rblue@netflix.com Cc: general@incubator.apache.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ad1778056ef006c9" --000000000000ad1778056ef006c9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Heya Ryan, On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 2:39 PM Ryan Blue wrote: > > we have allowed (and IMO should continue) podlings to have licensing > issues during their incubator releases > > Thanks for pointing this out, Greg. I wasn't aware of this and have always > had releases fail when we discover licensing issues. I think there's a > significant risk of license problems, so I had assumed we would require a > thorough scrub before the first release. > > What's the argument for finishing this work before graduation rather than > first release? Isn't the release a product for which the ASF is legally > responsible? Given that we fail releases for known license issues, > shouldn't we also be more careful when we know there are likely to be > issues? > This is why incubator releases have a disclaimer. It gives them time to work through dependency and licensing issues, even while they're testing their release process with our KEYS and distribution framework. So the "argument" is simply to allow the podling to multitask, rather than gate one of their activities. When you really want to lift the cover, there isn't a problem if a podling releases (say) a hard LGPL dependency. That's just a policy choice of the Foundation, to avoid such dependencies. We don't like it, and maybe some messed up licensing downstream, possibly, for somebody to tease apart. But historically, the Incubator has let these issues slide for a while, yet gate on graduation. I also feel that podling releases are in a grey area, that don't truly have the full backing of the ASF (thus the disclaimer, and them not being a TLP; although technically the Apache Incubator is the stand-in PMC behind the release). Cheers, -g --000000000000ad1778056ef006c9--