From general-return-64072-archive-asf-public=cust-asf.ponee.io@incubator.apache.org Thu Apr 12 06:07:20 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Delivered-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by mx-eu-01.ponee.io (Postfix) with SMTP id B9A4E18064A for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2018 06:07:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: (qmail 22916 invoked by uid 500); 12 Apr 2018 04:07:18 -0000 Mailing-List: contact general-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list general@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 22905 invoked by uid 99); 12 Apr 2018 04:07:18 -0000 Received: from mail-relay.apache.org (HELO mailrelay2-lw-us.apache.org) (207.244.88.137) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Thu, 12 Apr 2018 04:07:18 +0000 Received: from mail-ot0-f173.google.com (mail-ot0-f173.google.com [74.125.82.173]) by mailrelay2-lw-us.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mailrelay2-lw-us.apache.org) with ESMTPSA id 0F4551D57 for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2018 04:07:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ot0-f173.google.com with SMTP id j8-v6so4500960ota.7 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 21:07:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: ALQs6tAxfDGuhy7auinV/vXa9n1NZim3Q55mAcopqY4JzqgnlqaLTI+I nZ/tm0YMLfThV8VFj/oXzasbePTyIS5SjMJLYMM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AIpwx49L1jgqGUmyWxBtF/VhiQrNxI8k8+2r3tekDu34pXFwQofJ+sPhGfoA+emxQygNJ0Tj6kXcELHaggJwZ02mXnc= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:2564:: with SMTP id j33-v6mr5060460otd.398.1523506035965; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 21:07:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a9d:1831:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Wed, 11 Apr 2018 21:07:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <01ec01d3d0e9$fe3a7e40$faaf7ac0$@gardler.org> References: <1523278367759-0.post@n3.nabble.com> <214B64E9-DE09-4E4E-B5F3-5A6C6D0A3153@apache.org> <11684D49-52E6-4F7A-AF2C-BA4AC6F9132D@jaguNET.com> <01ec01d3d0e9$fe3a7e40$faaf7ac0$@gardler.org> From: Hen Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2018 21:07:15 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: The role of a mentor To: general@incubator.apache.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000016457605699ee43d" --00000000000016457605699ee43d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I liked Julian's description too. Yours worries me though - specifically the "but in fact they are reading every thread, watching every process being developed, thinking through every decision. Very occasionally (in an ideal world) they are saying nothing". My first concern is because that's not in the meaning of mentor. If you think of someone you view as a mentor, they didn't spend all their time looking over your shoulder. Instead you met with them from time to time and discussed a topic that you were looking to find clarity on; and your mentor successfully helped you find clarity on that. Your description sounds more like a coach, be it sports coach or another type. Always watching, ideally doesn't have to nudge, but does when needed. Or Roz from Monster's Inc.... "Always Watching....". I know there's no reason why the definition of Incubator Mentor has to equal other concepts of the word, but it helps. The second concern is on available time. If we assume that all of us are maxed out in our available time to volunteer for an activity, mentoring a podling means giving up a substantial existing volunteer activity. In essence to mentor a podling you have to stop tracking the communication on another project, which means stopping contributing to another project. That's a heavy hit and while having coaches (my word) for every podling would be awesome, I don't see that we have that number of volunteer with idle cycles waiting to do something. Which takes us full circle - if what we want are coaches, absent (burnt out?) mentors are no surprise at all. Hen On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 9:35 AM, wrote: > +1000 > > I've not been very active in the incubator for some time. I've > participated in these "role of the mentor" conversations many times over > the years. I wish I'd been able to make my contribution as clear and > accurate as Julian's contribution below... (applause) > > A good mentor *looks* like they are doing nothing, but in fact they are > reading every thread, watching every process being developed, thinking > through every decision. Very occasionally (in an ideal world) they are > saying nothing. > > When they do choose to speak it's because something is happening that is > in conflict with "the Apache Way". The goal is not to teach the community > specific and rigid processes, the goal is to teach the community how to u= se > the Apache Way to create communities that create software. The precise > processes will evolve over time in a way that suits the project community= . > > In most cases, as the podling community matures the mentor will start to > learn improvements to their own processes. This has certainly been true i= n > every single project I've mentored over the years and why I occasionally > come back and mentor a new project. It's a learning experience, it is NOT= a > teaching experience. > > Ross > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Jagielski > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 7:32 AM > To: general > Subject: Re: The role of a mentor > > +1 > > > On Apr 9, 2018, at 12:45 PM, Julian Hyde wrote: > > > > Has anyone here taught someone how to fish? (Or how to make cookies, > > or ski?) > > > > Mostly you just stand off, watching what they do. If you see them > > about to screw up in a big way, step in. Occasionally, offer them > > hints for how they might do what they=E2=80=99re doing a little bit bet= ter. > > (Not too often, because they=E2=80=99ll start to resent the advice.) > > > > It=E2=80=99s a time-intensive process, and most of the time the person = being > taught thinks you=E2=80=99re doing nothing. > > > > Sometimes they ask for help, and very occasionally they ask for guidanc= e > (but only if you have not given them more unsolicited advice than they > think they need, see above). > > > > Julian > > > > > >> On Apr 9, 2018, at 5:52 AM, Liang Chen > wrote: > >> > >> Hi > >> > >> +1, agree with JB points. > >> Mentor mostly just focus on ASF policy and rules, then is ok. > >> "Teach him how to fish", it is more important, so it would be better > >> if mentors could provide some good example cases(role model) for them > >> to learn, tell them how to find the solution from ASF website. > >> > >> Regards > >> Liang > >> > >> Jean-Baptiste Onofr=C3=A9 wrote > >>> Hi John, > >>> > >>> IMHO, a mentor is not necessary involved in the project > >>> technics/codebase (it's actually a bonus). > >>> > >>> As a mentor, I'm focusing: > >>> 1. Insure of the legal aspect of the project (ICLA/CCLA, SGA, ...) > >>> 2. Help around infra and release preparation according to Apache > >>> rules 3. Help to promote the project and build communities around 4. > >>> See if there's potential interaction with other podlings and > >>> existing TLPs 5. Help to go to graduation (following the graduation > >>> checklist) 6. (optional) Help on the contribution (codebase, > >>> website, ...) > >>> > >>> My $0.01 > >>> > >>> Regards > >>> JB > >>> > >>> On 04/03/2018 12:54 AM, John D. Ament wrote: > >>>> I've been following along the absent mentors discussion. But I'm > >>>> curious, from both an IPMC member's perspective as well as a member > >>>> of a podling, what roles do you see for a mentor? What are their > >>>> responsibilities to the podling? > >>>> > >>>> We have a few things written down, and I'm not too interested in > >>>> rehashing the written version. But what do podlings need from > >>>> their mentors? > >>>> Point > >>>> you in a direction to run with? Do the apache work for the > >>>> podling? Do we (the ASF) need mentors to ensure that podlings are > >>>> operating within certain bounds? Do we rely on mentors to be a > >>>> read of the pulse of a podling? > >>>> > >>>> John > >>>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Jean-Baptiste Onofr=C3=A9 > >> > >>> jbonofre@ > >> > >>> http://blog.nanthrax.net > >>> Talend - http://www.talend.com > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> - > >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: > >> > >>> general-unsubscribe@.apache > >> > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: > >> > >>> general-help@.apache > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Sent from: http://apache-incubator-general.996316.n3.nabble.com/ > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org > >> > >> >> > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org > >> > >> >> > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org > > --00000000000016457605699ee43d--