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From Jan Lahoda <lah...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Release Apache NetBeans 9.0 Beta (incubating) rc2
Date Mon, 22 Jan 2018 12:27:29 GMT
On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 12:36 PM, John D. Ament <johndament@apache.org>
wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 5:33 AM Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > The very last thing you’ll find us doing is ignoring your advice. We have
> > taken everything everyone has said and suggested from the very start very
> > seriously.
> >
> > It is for that very reason that, for example, we’d like rat exclusions to
> > be discussed and not ignored and for it also to be affirmed that our test
> > data (some of which is necessarily pseudo code) to not need to be
> licensed
> > since doing so would break our build and explicit Apache guidelines
> specify
> > that in these cases no license header is required — which is precisely
> why
> > we excluded them via rat and precisely why those exlusions should be
> > discussed, not ignored.
> >
>
> The problem though is that rat exclusions are meant to be a sign of things
> that have been vetted and confirmed as not apache licensed, but still
> acceptable for inclusion.  Most projects I have seen use rat exclusions do
> it for:
>
> - build output, we don't care nor should we care, about the output of a
> build from the source release
> - Files that are licensed as other Cat A
> - Files that can't have a header for technical reasons
>
> It is typical that when the IPMC reviews a release, the contents of rat
> exclusions are checked first, to confirm that nothing is accidentally
> excluded that shouldn't be, or that it is excluded and properly licensed.
>
> I'm inclined to vote -1 at this point as well..  I want confirm that the
> list of issues Justin raised have been entered in your backlog.  To me, the
> minimum amount of work that has to be done to convert to a +1 is:
>

My personal opinion (which may be minor) is that there's no specific reason
to rush this release. To me, the main point of this release was to
determine if everything is OK, and if not, what exactly is not. So that
when the actual (non-beta) release comes up, we minimize surprises.


> - Remove the binary zip files from the source release
>

I don't think there are doubts about that.


> - Every issue raised by Justin represented in JIRA somewhere
>

One of the issue raised as the NOTICE file in the binary distribution. As
far as I can tell, it is unclear what specifically we should do about it.
(Yes, it contains a lot of text, but my understanding is that it is mostly
based on NOTICE files from other Apache projects we use/bundle, like Ant or
Lucene.)


> - Specific call outs in the README about test data licensing not be Apache
> license
>

This is one of the things that are very unclear to me. If we are talking
about files like these [1][2][3][4][5][6] (they may appear to differ, but
they actually are all the same: test data), then I believe these were part
of the initial donation and I don't have a reason to believe these are not
under the Apache license. Of course we could list them in the README, but
if that's a requirement, I'd suggest to fix:
https://www.apache.org/legal/src-headers.html#faq-exceptions

to include that requirement to avoid further confusion.


> - Specific call outs somewhere that the XSDs, ENTs, etc are derived from
> other locations
>

I've sent an e-mail to dev@netbeans asking those to be resolved.

Thanks,
   Jan

[1]
https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/blob/master/java.hints/test/unit/data/org/netbeans/test/java/hints/AddCast1.java
[2]
https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/blob/master/java.hints/test/unit/data/goldenfiles/org/netbeans/modules/java/hints/errors/ErrorHintsTest/testAddCastHint1-hints.pass
[3]
https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/blob/master/java.hints/test/unit/data/goldenfiles/org/netbeans/modules/java/hints/errors/ErrorHintsTest/testAddCastHint1.pass
[4]
https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/blob/master/java.completion/test/unit/data/goldenfiles/org/netbeans/modules/java/completion/JavaCompletionTaskTest/1.8/intVarName.pass
[5]
https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/blob/master/java.completion/test/unit/data/goldenfiles/org/netbeans/modules/java/completion/JavaCompletionTaskTest/1.8/empty.pass
[6]
https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/blob/master/java.completion/test/unit/data/goldenfiles/org/netbeans/modules/java/completion/JavaCompletionTaskTest/1.8/CreateConstructorNonDefaultConstructor.pass


> >
> > Gj
> >
> > On Monday, January 22, 2018, Justin Mclean <justin@classsoftware.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > > I am not sure what the point is of spending time on putting rat
> > > exclusions
> > > > together if they’re simply going to be ignored when it comes to IPMC
> > > > members evaluating a release.
> > >
> > > Rat exclusions are fine if they comply with policy and don’t hide
> things.
> > > I’ve reviewed and voted on 300+ releases on the IPMC list so perhaps I
> > have
> > > some advice to give that you should listen to. You can of course choose
> > to
> > > ignore it.
> > >
> > > > Yes, we can of course discuss those rat exclusions. No, they cannot
> > > simply be ignored and we cannot be confronted
> > > > with a very long list of issues in the IPMC vote thread primarily
> based
> > > on
> > > > the fact that our rat exclusions have been ignored.
> > >
> > > Some of the issues I’ve brought up are minor and can be fixed in later
> > > releases and some IMO are not and are not in line with ASF licensing or
> > > release policy. I suggest you try are fix those.
> > >
> > > > I would like this to be affirmed by the IPMC and I would like our
> > > mentors to advise on their perspective on this too.
> > >
> > > That would be a good way forward. As I said said previously your
> mentors
> > > can vote +1 on this release - my vote is not a veto. I would be totally
> > > fine if you got  3 +1 votes from other IPMC members and my vote is the
> > only
> > > -1.That’s how Apache works.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Justin
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
>

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